Transcript

Greg Wins the Game

Jeff:
[0:04] One, two, three, shoot. Greg wins.

Greg:
[0:08] Welcome to Craft Beer Radio episode 510 on 511 on August 18th, 2023. I'm Shannon.

Introductions and Mic Troubles

Jeff:
[0:25] I'm Jeff. I was looking for a microphone to talk into. I'm still not used to these lavalier mics. I'm Greg.
Where's my mic? All right. So yeah, Greg mentioned it in the intro there, but the last like three shows, we said the wrong episode number at the beginning of the thing. So.

Greg:
[0:41] I just like it. I just think it should be just something that we stay with.

Jeff:
[0:45] Well, we need to be pressured to be accurate, right? I mean.

Greg:
[0:49] So what do you got here? What are you pouring for us?

Jeff:
[0:51] These are more beers from our trip. Good news for you, Greg.
This will be the last show where I feel like we have to get the IPAs while they're fresh.
But this one is the fourth anniversary from Twin Barns Brewing. It is a golden rye IPA.
So this should be something a little bit different from the, oh, I poured poorly, Shannon didn't get much.
And we're gonna have some.
So there's some scratch on the Asian too. So we're gonna have to do.

Shannon:
[1:20] The mixy mix.

Greg:
[1:22] Dumb mixy mix.

Jeff:
[1:23] Three way here.

Greg:
[1:27] Ooh, okay, so this is hop with 6.7%, a hop with New Zealand-grown Nectaroon and Rewaka hops.
Okay. All right.

Jeff:
[1:39] Yeah. And then the other note is that this is a rye IPA. So, you know, rye will typically give it a more spicy and character to the grain.

Greg:
[1:50] It's also a hazy. I know you pulled these out before. It's still pretty cold. It is warm this up a bit.
How has your couple of weeks thing as your fortnight?

Jeff:
[2:04] No, it's been busy with work and I'm still making bowls. Got back to making bowls.

Shannon:
[2:10] So it's fun. I can make bowls while I can.

Greg:
[2:14] I have one of your bowls and it's a great bowl.

Jeff:
[2:17] Yeah, it's got one of the good ones too. I really like that knot hole that was in that one. Yeah, I was making, there's probably like my third or fourth bowl and I'm turning it and it still has has the bark on it, I really don't know what it's going to be.
And there was some, you know, like kind of punky wood, like a branch, not hole, in the side.
And I was thinking I was going to, once I got it cleared off, I was going to glue that in, epoxy it, something.
And then as I'm turning it, the knot flies out, like hits me in the shoulder.
So I'm like, okay, I guess I'm going to go home.

Shannon:
[2:53] I hope you were wearing eyewear.

Jeff:
[2:55] Yeah, yeah. I got a whole face shield.

Greg:
[2:57] So, punky, is that the term?

Jeff:
[2:59] When it's like, almost rotten. Okay. Like soft and rotten.

Greg:
[3:02] Because the first thing that came into my mind when I heard punky was, anybody?

Jeff:
[3:07] Punky Brewster?

Greg:
[3:08] Punky Brewster. Which then I realized, could that be a name for a brewery?

Shannon:
[3:12] Oh.

Greg:
[3:13] I'm the Punky Brewster.

Shannon:
[3:17] There you go, that's a good one. NBC or CBS probably still owns like the trademark of it.

Greg:
[3:21] Probably.

Shannon:
[3:23] I don't really get a lot on the nose, do you?

Greg:
[3:26] I'm getting some javi, but that's kind of it. I'm not getting...

Jeff:
[3:29] So these are mojitua and raiku, right?

Greg:
[3:32] Nectaroon and rehuaca.

Jeff:
[3:33] Oh, rehuaca, okay. Yeah, so rehuaca is one of those New Zealand hops, right? So a little soft, a little bit vanilla, a little bit melon, you know? So I am smelling something like that on the nose, not really like big old citrus or anything like that.
And then in the aroma, you're getting... As aroma, you're also getting the malt, you know? you're getting a little bit of barley, a fair amount of rye.

Greg:
[3:57] Yeah, that's mostly what I'm getting. Yeah, it is the malt.
I guess there's a little like, I don't know, something peach-like.

Jeff:
[4:06] For me, it's a little bit like cantaloupe or honeydew.

Greg:
[4:13] That's a better description.

Shannon:
[4:17] Yeah, very mild.

Rye adds crispness and bite to the beer.

Jeff:
[4:23] Yes, it's kind of dry, has a nice crispness to it because of the rye and the malt gum.

Greg:
[4:27] I think the rye adds something to it by making it not feel just kind of puffy by giving it a little bit of a bite.
Um, but it also is very like Melanie on, on the first step, it's more sweet and then the The rye kicks in.

Jeff:
[4:51] Yeah. Had this beer. This was the day that we were, did the, all the rainy day breweries in New Hampshire.
And this was that last place right by our Airbnb. Oh, yeah, yeah. Where we got this.

Greg:
[5:03] That was a good one.

Shannon:
[5:07] To me, it seems very bitter.

Greg:
[5:10] I think it's the rye. Because I don't feel like it's bitter hop-wise.

Shannon:
[5:14] I don't have any IBUs or anything like that.

Jeff:
[5:18] Yeah, it doesn't taste like a resin-y, like, hop bitterness. It's very dry, right?

Shannon:
[5:24] It is.

Jeff:
[5:25] And there's kind of a twang on your tongue a little bit, you know, like, I think that's from the rye. Is that what you're coming across as a bitterness?

Shannon:
[5:32] Yeah, it's from the rye.

Greg:
[5:33] Yeah. It's different, and I like that it's different, because I just posted on our Discord, by the way. Please join our Discord.
The link is on, see craftyradio.com?

Jeff:
[5:49] Right on the front page, towards the bottom, yep.

Greg:
[5:51] And then in the what are we drinking area, I posted that I got, what was it? Not Heddy Topper, but the other one.

Jeff:
[5:59] Focal Banger.

Greg:
[5:59] Focal Banger from Alchemist, and it was... Yeah.

Jeff:
[6:03] 2015, wow.

Greg:
[6:04] Yeah, yesterday is when I bought it, and it was made two days before, so that's as fresh, I think, as I could possibly get in Pittsburgh.

Jeff:
[6:15] Oh, for sure.

Greg:
[6:17] And yeah, it was just like, eh. It was fine.
And it kind of reminded me of all the things that this thing was.
I think it's a little bit more drinkable than Hattie Topper.

Jeff:
[6:31] Yeah. Yeah, I had one when we were at the Alchemist.
But I guess I was looking for this super juicy, super fresh.

Shannon:
[6:44] I'm at Mecca kind of thing. I drank the sucker from the can.

Greg:
[6:47] Did you?

Shannon:
[6:47] Thank you.

Greg:
[6:51] Yeah, I read all the instructions. I think is if nothing else, like I said in the chat there, the thing that I appreciated the most wasn't the fact that, oh, I get a whale.
But it was this is a this place that I shop for beer, which I do is pay something of a premium for, you know, it's more expensive than it would be like at some of the other stores. But they're taking care of their beer. and you know this was right out there.

Jeff:
[7:20] Two days is kind of crazy. So Still City Beer is the importer for the Alchemist, which I had errantly presumed.
Okay, they signed a contract, but I don't think Alchemist has any beer to come to Pittsburgh.
Well, obviously that's wrong. But it's crazy that it went from canning line through the wholesaler to the retailer in two days. Yeah. When it's a 14-hour drive.

Greg:
[7:48] So and I'm pretty sure because I think I've talked to people there, you know, they make sure that stuff arrives cold You know, it's not they don't Have it.
Let it go Warming there's obviously there are beers out there that aren't in their fridge So it's not like they do it everything is like that but for the expensive stuff The top shelf stuff they keep it cold and they make sure it's there.
So I appreciated that much the fact that the beer wasn't that amazing?
It's fine. I'm willing to pay a little bit of an extra thing just as a As a shout out to the, as a here's my, here's my present to you guys.

Jeff:
[8:29] For sure.

Hiking in Pennsylvania compared to New England.

[8:32] Shannon and I went hiking first time in Pennsylvania after our trip. Yeah.

Shannon:
[8:38] And it wasn't quite the same.

Jeff:
[8:42] Doing hikes around western Pennsylvania, kind of a letdown after you've done hiking in New England.

Greg:
[8:48] Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Although we didn't talk about, I did want to say that one of the things that we didn't mention about the nice thing about living in Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh in particular is.
So if you live there in Vermont or up there, there's kind of one way in.
You can get stuff, but there's a narrower way to get things to there, whereas we're a much more centralized location. So it's a lot easier to get a hold of more stuff where we are and quicker.
OK, so if nothing else, we are kind of in the middle of a of a big, you know, mercantile area, which helps us a lot when we want to get stuff.

Jeff:
[9:35] Yeah. I think she's like, but the mountains.

Shannon:
[9:44] Yeah, the hiking, the, oh.
Yeah, I'd take, I'd trade it. I'd definitely trade it. for being outdoors in Maine in the summer.

Greg:
[9:58] I don't want to just be on the grid. I want to be the grid.

Shannon:
[10:02] Mm-hmm. Would you like?

Jeff:
[10:07] Yeah, I'll drink. Not a fan?

Shannon:
[10:09] Nah.

Greg:
[10:11] Did you think it was bad or just not super into it?

Shannon:
[10:15] Just not super into it. I didn't think it was bad.

Greg:
[10:19] But I get it, you know, reserve your sobriety for stuff that you think you're going to really love.

Shannon:
[10:25] Yeah.

Greg:
[10:26] So that makes sense. This is, again, the Twin Barns 4, their fourth anniversary. It's got a big 4 on it.

Shannon:
[10:34] All right.

Jeff:
[10:40] Let's stagger the IPAs this time. Let's go to a farmhouse.

Greg:
[10:42] Oh, good. That's a good idea.

Jeff:
[10:44] All right. Bellflower Brewing Company. This was one in Portland that we hit up.
Their brewery, I believe, is outside. No, it says in Portland here.
Okay. I was going to say, they literally brew out here, but we're outside.

Greg:
[10:59] No, no.

Jeff:
[11:02] It seems like a lot of the places in Portland have their tap rooms and have places elsewhere.
I've seen a bunch of that when we were doing those breweries.

Shannon:
[11:13] Which one is this one? Buffalo. This is...

Greg:
[11:15] Do you remember the beer name?

Shannon:
[11:17] That's what I'm asking.

Jeff:
[11:18] This is.

Greg:
[11:21] He's looking at it.

Jeff:
[11:22] Farmhouse Ale. I'm sorry?

Greg:
[11:24] Farmhouse.

Jeff:
[11:24] It's Farmhouse. Or it's called Bellflower Farmhouse Ale.

Greg:
[11:28] Oop, that was me, I apologize. Need to turn off the error message noise.
Farmhouse, I don't see.

Shannon:
[11:38] I drank one of these last week and I got my hand smacked.
Save these for the show. show. I just told you you gotta save one.
I'm exaggerating.

Greg:
[11:49] Okay. So bellflower park, but Papi, Pebebe, Bellflower farmhouse, 6%.
Uh, and everything else is just, this is what you'll taste, which I'm not going to bother to read because that's not, I want to learn myself.

Farmhouse ale has a lighter, whiter appearance.

Shannon:
[12:12] The color, I will have to say, it's not as dark gold as the last one.
It's a much lighter... It almost has like a whittier kind of color.

Jeff:
[12:24] It does. It's not quite as white as a whittier, but it has some opacity to the cloudiness.

Greg:
[12:31] Yeah, it's cloudiness, it's not a hazy, like a hazy IPA.

Shannon:
[12:36] And it's funny you say, as soon as I nose it, I smell a wit beer.

Jeff:
[12:46] Well, you're going to smell a lot of the similar characteristics, right? You're going to smell a big wheat part of the Greenbill's wheat in this.
That's common for a lot of farmhouse sales. And then the yeast, likely not a wit beer yeast, but it's going to be a more rustic sazon yeast or something like that, they're going to be in the same extended family kind of flavor wise, right?
And then, I haven't tasted it yet, but you might not, it probably doesn't have coriander and orange peel and things like that added to it.

Greg:
[13:18] The rusticness of this comes through, because I mean, I smell this and I'm imagining like an old farmhouse fence. So there's like a dusty mustiness coming out of it.

Shannon:
[13:30] I'm smelling the inside of a clean barn. I'm not saying dirty.
The wood and the hay, you know, that combination of those two.

Jeff:
[13:43] I'm actually getting like a buckwheat kind of aroma where it's like a little more...

Greg:
[13:48] Oat-y.

Jeff:
[13:51] Chewy and kind of brown smelling compared to wheat.

Greg:
[13:56] Mm-hmm.

Jeff:
[13:58] Hmm.

Greg:
[14:00] Ah. All right. O-tay, as buckwheat would say.

Jeff:
[14:07] Oh, you're not saying O-tea. Like there's oats in it.

Shannon:
[14:10] No, no.

Greg:
[14:11] I'm saying like Eddie Murphy on Saturday Night Live when he did a buckwheat character.

Shannon:
[14:16] O-tay.

Greg:
[14:21] We're old.

Jeff:
[14:23] On to the flavor. It's sweeter than I thought it'd be. The malt comes through.
It has kind of like, almost like a marmalade toast type flavor.

Shannon:
[14:38] Marmalade toast.

Greg:
[14:39] Mm.
You're on to something there.

Jeff:
[14:43] But I think that, I think you're in the right like zone, but I think you're, that's also coming across Melanie, like the melon-y, like the last beer also, like there's like almost like melon jelly or something on it.

Shannon:
[14:57] Kelp.

Greg:
[14:59] Did you say marmalade? Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm thinking definitely like a cracker with something on it.

Shannon:
[15:10] Yeah.

Jeff:
[15:12] Yeah, it doesn't really carry the orange part. That's not really what I was going for. More of just the vibe of toasty bread with some jelly on it.

Greg:
[15:20] Hmm. Yeah. Okay, then I guess you're in the right zone.
What's that flavor though? It's not orange.

Shannon:
[15:34] Well, I take back what I said. It's a cantaloupe. No, I think it's a really faint.
I'm tasting, faintly tasting apricot. Okay.

Greg:
[15:47] Okay.

Faint apricot and honeydew notes emerge

Shannon:
[15:50] So if you pictured an apricot jam and you just barely put some on your toast, spread it really, really, really thin. Okay.

Greg:
[15:58] Yeah. I do think that's a good call. I see that there.
That's there. There's something as a little like, in terms of melon, there's a little bit of honeydew in there, I think. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not getting like a singular fruit here. There's more of a combination.
There might be even a little bit of like, lychee. Yeah, I could see that.
Or even like dragon fruit, along those lines.

Jeff:
[16:29] For sure. So, LT-99 is another thing.

Shannon:
[16:32] No, apparently it is a bog-standard, ordinary, possibly diamagnetic metal.

Diamagnetic Metal's Magnetic Field Expulsion

Greg:
[16:42] A diamagnetic metal means that it can expel magnetic fields, So you can get things to float on it if you have the magnetic line right.
But you're not expending any energy by doing that, by the way.
It's just sort of, it's like resting something on top of a...
Hmm, what's a good physical analogy for this? Because basically it's resting on top of the field lines.
So it's not doing any energy. It's just being held...
Yeah, well, I mean, I guess the closest thing to say, it's like a table, right?
The table is holding this glass up against gravity, but it's not doing any...
It's not putting any energy into the fact that it's doing that.

Jeff:
[17:35] Right. Yeah. Now the paper was retracted.
I guess the guy's getting, or the team's getting, you know, investigated, so. I don't know what...

Greg:
[17:46] I know that one of the papers from the guys was retracted. I don't know if the LK99 paper itself was retracted, but I don't think it was published by, I don't think it was even published yet, or it wasn't published by like a prestigious journal, but Physical Review Letters, which is a very prestigious journal, did retract one of like the main guy's papers.
Okay. So, yeah.
People get excited about flashes in the pan all the time.

Shannon:
[18:10] Yeah.

Greg:
[18:11] And, you know, I'm used to seeing it happen in the field that I study in particle physics.
So I'm really skeptical about anything that happens in there.
I was, of course, less skeptical about LK99 for kind of a couple of reasons, one of which was it's not my field.
And the other one was.
the ease of testing it, because it was relatively, according to the stuff that was on there and the stuff that I read, it was like really easy for people to test this thing.
So there wouldn't be a whole lot of time between whether we knew this was legit or not. Yeah.

Jeff:
[18:49] I started the talk about this a couple episodes ago, but we got off track.
I was watching a YouTube series, or YouTube show about element hunting and the scandals there.
There's, you know, there's like three main places that discover all these super heavy elements. One's in Russia, one's in Brookhaven, right?
There's one in Berkeley.

Greg:
[19:09] Berkeley.

Jeff:
[19:09] There's one in Germany. And then the...

Greg:
[19:13] One in Russia.

Jeff:
[19:14] One in Russia. So Berkeley kind of hired away this guy, Viktor Ninov, from the German group.
And long story short, this guy is just compulsive with falsifying information to get the discoveries.
So Berkeley had a huge egg on their face, like, because he claimed like three or four of the, you know, like, you know, like, like 107 to 114, somewhere in there, like, that he had found it. But then when I went back and looked at the data, it was all falsified.

Shannon:
[19:51] That's bad, because so when you're element hunting for those who are in the know and like for Shannon, I'm sure you don't really are up on know how any of this works, but you you're you're throwing.

Greg:
[20:04] You're throwing some one nucleus at another, hoping that there is going to be a fusion and that, you know, it's going to be an extraordinarily unstable atom, and it's going to decay.
So you know what's going to be left behind, and you're looking for what's going to be left behind.

Jeff:
[20:20] You're familiar with the periodic table of elements a little bit?

Shannon:
[20:23] Absolutely. And so like right now, it goes up to like 112 or so.
But everything after 115, 118, I think.

Greg:
[20:34] 118 is the last one that was contrived.

Jeff:
[20:39] But everything in the hundreds, I don't know exactly where, like something that's stable, but they decay right away.
So what these people do is they find two combinations of elements that when they slam them together, they They make these big elements, or they make.

Greg:
[20:56] Something the keys in through this big element kind of thing and You're throwing not like one you're throwing like a bajillion of these you're stripping off the electrons you're throwing up bajillion of these nuclei at other nuclei and just hoping that One of them or maybe two of them will hit in just the right way because they're both positively charged There's lots of reasons why This, you know, this is exacting difficult work to do and requires like really calibrated machines Really pure environments, you know as pure a vacuum as possible It's interesting because there's different recipes you can use to try to get these big elements Like Einsteinium is like one of the biggest elements I think it's Einsteinium that lasts long enough that you could throw other things at it Like anything bigger than einsteinium will decay before you have enough time to throw things at it.

Jeff:
[21:57] So like they have einsteinium sitting there. Yeah, microseconds.
And then they use like cobalt or something, or maybe even bigger, I forget, but they throw that.
So like you can't use element like 108 and throw element 108 at it to try to get element 216 or whatever, because neither of them last long enough for the experiment to happen.

Greg:
[22:19] So let's say you're trying to get element 120, well you could, in theory, I guess, try to throw 60 at 60, right? But I don't think that would work, for some reason.
There's lots of weird nuclear physics reasons why they pick the ones that they do, but the numbers should add up to what you're trying to get, and then you know based on the information that the math tells you what it will decay into, and so then what you do is you try to measure and see if those, because you obviously, once that happens, and again, it falls apart in microseconds or even less.
So what you're looking for is then the daughter elements, the decay of that will produce...

Jeff:
[23:07] You have the right proportion of these other things, it gives you evidence that you were there. The fingerprint. You know, that kind of thing.

Greg:
[23:15] Gotcha. It's a lot of really difficult executing work, but because you know what you're expecting, if you wanted to fake it.
you presumably could. And there is sort of a, on some level, an honor system that you're not doing that.

Jeff:
[23:32] Yeah. Part of what he was doing was to try to get dibs. Because I think it was, we'll get there sooner or later.
And sooner is better. So I want to falsify the information in case another lab gets it. We can have dibs on discovering it.

Shannon:
[23:49] And which one was this one? Because I didn't know what...

Jeff:
[23:52] This is the Berkeley lab, Victor Nino. So he just got, you know, once he was found out, he strummed out of the industry.

Greg:
[24:00] Yeah. Because it's built on the honor system, that honor system is very rigorously enforced.
So if you're found to have violated that, then you are just out.
That's why a lot of studies, they do double blind, or they don't even get a chance to look at the information or they code it in a way so that they only can so that they gather all the information with their machines and it's then like coded before they even look at it.
And then they later, much later when all the experiments are done, then they decode it and see whether they did it or not. So they're not influenced by what have happened.

Jeff:
[24:38] I learned the craziest bias today that people have. What's that?
prefer letters on the right side of the keyboard versus letters on the left side of the keyboard.

Greg:
[24:48] Really?

Jeff:
[24:49] It started before 1990, names that were chosen for children, use letters on both sides of the keyboard fairly equally, and after 1990, skews hard to the right side of the keyboard.
But that's not the only piece of evidence. There are, just if you take surveys of, do you like A or U better, stuff like that.
like it wades out the right side of the keyboard for right- and left-handed people.

Greg:
[25:16] I mean, there are two good vowels on the left side of the keyboard, A and E, so you'd think that those are gonna be.

Shannon:
[25:21] Yeah, you would, but I'm thinking about...

Jeff:
[25:26] Yeah, you were a typer.

Shannon:
[25:27] I mean, I'm just, yeah, I'm thinking about how much faster I am with...

Jeff:
[25:35] Tristan's a left-handed name.
Tyler's a middle.

Greg:
[25:42] Max is mostly left-handed, although the M's all the way on the right-hand side.

Jeff:
[25:46] Victoria's kind of mixed too, so you don't fall into the thing too much.

Greg:
[25:51] I'm a lefty for sure.

Shannon:
[25:56] Although technically, I'm Gregory, so there is, yeah, if you put it in Jeffrey, I'm totally left-sided keyboard. Ah.

Jeff:
[26:01] If you put it in Jeffrey, I'm totally left-sided keyboard. I mean, not 100%. I don't like stewardess.

Left-handed word and QWERTY keyboard bias

Greg:
[26:07] Right. Or, you know, stewardess is all left-handed, longest left-handed word?

Shannon:
[26:13] I didn't realize it was the longest left-handed word. I've never really paid attention, but I'm just thinking about when I type, like, which hand is more dominant and which one I type faster with, which side of the keyboard I'm faster on, and I guess it probably is the right.
Rexda is all left-handed, so if you know anybody named Rexda, I don't know anybody named Rexda.

Jeff:
[26:44] So the QWERTY layout, I just learned that, so I listened to Radiolab, and that's where they threw this nugget out about how there's a bias, this weird bias that like, there's not a good hypothesis why.
But in like, China, where the story is mostly about how China was able to do the different methods of getting all of the Chinese characters into a computer, typed in through a keyboard and stuff like that.
But like, there's not a similar bias there. But where those QWERTY keyboards are common in like Europe, Germany, England, they all have the right letter bias.

Greg:
[27:27] And we read left to right, so it's kind of, it's doubly weird. It's weird.
Or, and this also could be like a correlation is not equal to causation type thing.

Jeff:
[27:38] It'd be interesting, and then like, So like when the QWERTY keyboard was organized, we've all heard the story that they had to mix up the letters so the handlers wouldn't get to type it.

Greg:
[27:51] A lot of those stories about that are BS, or at least are challenged.

Jeff:
[27:54] So here's a new story that I've heard, is the word typewriter is all on the top row because typewriter salesmen couldn't really type, but they wanted to demonstrate it really fast. No, that's so.

Greg:
[28:06] I believe that that is something that's out there, I don't know whether that's something that's true, that has that flavor of being something that people made up after the fact.
Okay, so should we move on to something else?

Shannon:
[28:23] Yeah, that's all on me.

Jeff:
[28:24] Another IPA. Check this out. We're going to ping pong back and forth here.
This one's the Definitive Brewing Company stainless oasis.

Greg:
[28:34] Stainless oasis from Definitive?

Jeff:
[28:35] Yes.

Shannon:
[28:36] I believe this is another one that I got my hands slapped for.

Jeff:
[28:39] What?

Shannon:
[28:40] You got to save one of those for the show.

Jeff:
[28:43] I mean, you know? And you don't want to be tainted. Do you want to like not know what this tastes like? It's coming in, kind of.

Shannon:
[28:51] Okay, this is definitive.

Jeff:
[28:52] Stainless oasis. I'm being more careful pouring now. I got all three glasses here and I'm just going to pour like an ounce in each. And so we all get the same strata without having to.

Shannon:
[29:05] So when you say definitive, how definitive are you talking?
It's pretty definitive. I mean, There's no questions.

Jeff:
[29:18] These guys are also important.

Shannon:
[29:20] 6.2%. Stainless oasis.

Greg:
[29:24] Another hazy. Shock. Shocker.

Jeff:
[29:30] It'll be the last show where I'm trying to get these hazies out while they're still fresh.

Greg:
[29:34] Sorry. It's just. Smudge. I mean, I'm jading about it now. I can't deny it.
When I, everything is hazy and I just, I look for more.

Shannon:
[29:47] There's so much downstairs though that's not, it's just that we had to get these out first.

Greg:
[29:51] I know, I know, I understand.

Jeff:
[29:54] But now we have a ton of beer from Oxbow. We're gonna be doing an Oxbow here next.

Shannon:
[29:58] I'm wearing the shirt.

Greg:
[30:00] Ah, is that what that shirt is?

Shannon:
[30:03] Yes. Okay.

Greg:
[30:03] See the back. Ah, okay. Yeah. So it's got, so I've stayed at, is that Maine? That's Maine.

Jeff:
[30:07] Yeah. Yeah, I was not, I don't know, For some reason, I didn't know Oxbow's reputation.

Shannon:
[30:13] Oh, we'll talk about all that when we drink the Oxbow.

Greg:
[30:15] How could you? There's so many breweries around there. How could you know everybody's reputation? I feel like there's too many breweries for there to be whales anymore.

Jeff:
[30:24] Well, it was on our Discord. I was talking about where we were, and someone said, you gotta go down a couple blocks to Oxbow.
And we were actually gonna, we were gonna probably cut the night short before we went there. Yeah.
And like, no, you gotta go. So thank you, Discord listeners, or Discord participants.

Greg:
[30:39] Another reason to join our Discord.

Shannon:
[30:41] And now the sticker is on my laptop, the definitive sticker.

Jeff:
[30:48] All right.

Shannon:
[30:48] I don't know about you all, but it sounds funny because I'm describing the same thing, but apricot jumps out.

Greg:
[30:59] Can I smell yours?

Jeff:
[31:03] Smell mine. I'm getting more like guava.

Shannon:
[31:08] Definitely smells different than mine, doesn't it?

Greg:
[31:09] Yeah.

Jeff:
[31:10] I poured it. Did you guys see how I poured it?

Greg:
[31:13] Smell mine.

Jeff:
[31:15] No, I'm not arguing.

Greg:
[31:17] I'm just saying that weirdly, we're not getting exactly the same experience.

Jeff:
[31:21] Yeah. I know. I had all three glasses in a triangle and poured it a little bit in each glass and just went around in a circle. It's crazy that we don't have the same beer.

Greg:
[31:34] Yeah, it's not as lively on the noses as the one that you had.
I'm just trying to pick through it and I'm getting mostly malt.

Jeff:
[31:45] I'm getting like, tropicals, like subtle tropicals, like guava, dragon fruit.
Actually, I just went on to the flavor. And I think, you know, dragon fruit is not really that flavorful of a fruit, but I am totally tasting it in this beer.
Kind of that like mix between dragon fruit leaning towards pear.

Greg:
[32:08] Is it pear? I feel grapes actually. Pear.

Shannon:
[32:16] Definitely pear. Now I've only had dragon fruit like what, once or twice.

Jeff:
[32:24] It's another one that has kind of a melon-y texture to it.
It's in that ballpark of lychee and water chestnut, like all those things with subtle flavors.

Greg:
[32:38] Yeah, it's a lot like tomato. Salt makes a difference. Okay.

Jeff:
[32:43] I don't think I've ever had a whistle.

Shannon:
[32:49] I've had watermelon with salt Another one where yeah, we were watching something on youtube and as you threw our They suggested putting cracked pepper on watermelon.

Jeff:
[33:00] Oh, yeah that fucking delicious.

Shannon:
[33:01] Of course Never knew Oh, yeah. No, it's amazing.

Greg:
[33:05] Yeah, it is because pepper is how would you describe pepper pepper is I mean everyone's had pepper but like It's got some it's it's got a bit of spice to it and woodiness Uh, and it does help to, it has, it's got that oiliness, which then can bring in other, it can, it can use that aromatic oiliness to bring in other flavors and sort of elevate them.
Uh, vanilla ice cream. Pepper is fantastic on vanilla ice cream.

Jeff:
[33:38] I haven't had that, but I'll never have a watermelon again without pepper. That's for sure.
I mean, when I have the opportunity to put pepper on it.

Shannon:
[33:46] Fresh.

Greg:
[33:48] Yeah, it has to be fresh, yeah, yeah. If you get like dried pepper at a, that's a little more than cardboard.

Shannon:
[34:03] I really like this one.

Greg:
[34:06] This is nice and drinkable.

Shannon:
[34:07] There's a hint of vanilla in there too.

Greg:
[34:10] There is, that's a good call.

Jeff:
[34:12] Yeah, this one's super tasty drinkable because it has the subtle tropical flavors to it, You know, it's not.
The bitterness is low.

Shannon:
[34:23] At least the apparent bitterness is low.

Greg:
[34:26] Yeah, this is nice and drinkable. I really do enjoy this one.

Shannon:
[34:30] For an IPA, right?

Greg:
[34:31] For an IPA.

Jeff:
[34:32] For a New England IPA. This is the definitive stainless oasis.

Greg:
[34:39] So you put in the notes this New Horizons thing. Do you want to talk about that?

Listener shares about New Horizons mission and budget cuts

Jeff:
[34:44] Yeah, listener of the show. At least former listener. I should probably tell him we're doing it again because he hasn't commented and he was a huge fan of the show, John Daigle, the guy we met down at Aslan in DC, on the way back from the beach one time.
He sent an email, I was BCC, I don't know if you got it, but I think he works for one of the organizations that are putting on this petition.
It's about extending, or NASA has decided to cut the budget for the extended mission of New Horizons, which is the space probe that flew past Pluto in 2019.
And also, it flew past one of the Kuiper belt objects.

Greg:
[35:28] Yeah, a contact binary. I forget what it was called, but it looked kind of like a little snowman. Yeah.

Jeff:
[35:34] It was a Native American name for sky. I forget which tribe.
So they decided they're going to hibernate the machine, but they're going to contract out or let the contract run out for the team, the science team.
And then replace it with a heliocentric science team.
And it's said that, you know, okay, New Horizons could be reactivated, but it'll be doing heliocentric science and not- Like Voyager.
and not key KBO science, you know, Kuiper Belt Object science, and he wants petitions signed.
I was just, like, I don't know, like, I was hoping for, like, a strong case of why science is better for the KBO study.
I kind of wonder if it was, you know, like...
his company is, you know, a PR type thing for the current science team or something, you know? I'm not sure.

Greg:
[36:40] What's your feeling on it?

Jeff:
[36:42] I mean, a probe where all the instruments are still working and there's fuel, it seems a shame to not use it.
I don't have a good idea on which which brand of science is better. I don't know.
I was wondering what you think, like, what do you think about?

Greg:
[37:06] Well, so while planetary science and cosmology is not the field that I put a lot of effort into studying, it is a field that I'm very interested in.
And I consider myself beyond a layman in it.
And I love, love planetary exploration, robotic planetary exploration. I'm a huge fan.
I have a chart on my wall of planetary exploration from things, and I think New Horizons are fantastic spacecraft and really cool stuff.

Petition to Cut Funding for New Horizons

[37:46] And this petition, when you sent it to me and I read it, I was embarrassed.
And I felt it was shameless.
Let me read what it says here. Take care.

[38:06] With budget constraints, NASA has decided to cut funding for New Horizons and cease its Kuiper belt exploration starting October 1st, 2024, fiscal year 2025.
NASA also intends to re-compete the New Horizons science team in early September, replacing them with a lower-cost heliophysics team.
After the global accolades, is that fair?
Funding for the spacecraft may not be restored at some point after fiscal year, may be restored at some point after fiscal 2025, but as a heliophysics vision mission, not exploring the Kuiper belt.
Unless this is reversed, the Kuiper belt mission would be ended prematurely to save single digit millions of dollars, even though the team believes there are important scientific investigations to complete.
The Kuiper belt represents the vast majority of solar distance of mass to sustain a future space-steering civilization and take humanity for the stars.
That last sentence is just fucking bullshit.
The Kuiper belt is gigantic.
It's this gigantic area in terms of space, because it's beyond Neptune, and it's tilted with respect to the incline of the solar system, and it's huge, but it's also got nothing in it.
It's basically empty. I mean, they kind of got pretty lucky to do that second flyby.

Jeff:
[39:25] They had no idea that that thing was out there when they launched.
They found that with Hubble a couple years before the flyby.

Greg:
[39:35] But there has been a consistent effort to find something else for this to go to.
And nothing has been found. there's nothing there.

[39:48] There's certainly not enough fuel on the craft to get anywhere close to anything that we know about and a helio physics Mission seems like a really good use for the spacecraft now that it's at the point where there's nothing really it can reach Yeah, I mean, that's what I was looking for I didn't know I mean this obviously is one side of the story like what you just read.
It's very agenda Well, the thing that really embarrassed me was after the global accolades, is that fair? And I was just like, what the fuck does that mean?
Is that fair? Is life fair?
Is that fair? The god global accolades for the science it's doing, and now it can transition into doing a science that it's in the position to do some good science for?
What? Now, I understand the angle that, look, you know, it's hard out there for a postdoc.
These Kuiper belt guys want to have a job. But that's not really what this is saying.
This is trying to appeal on a much broader basis of, like, the last thing about how this is the mass to sustain future space-faring civilization.
There won't be space-faring civilization. That's nonsense. Take humanity to the stars. Humanity's not going anywhere.
We got one planet.
That's it. Doctor Buzzkill.

Shannon:
[41:16] Mr.

Jeff:
[41:17] Star Trek saying that. Oh, man.

Greg:
[41:21] I think this is this is entirely the right decision. And I feel like if you want to send something else to the Khyber belt, I'm all for it.
Right? Let's send more crafts to the Khyber belt to explore but make this thing into a heliophysics thing because yeah, we could use more heliophysics probes.
There's more science to be done there. This thing is on a hyperbolic trajectory.
It's going outside of the solar system, not as fast as Voyager is, but it still will hit those same things.
It's better to have multiple data points than just one.
It's got more advanced tech on it.

Jeff:
[42:01] When I was, after I saw this, I was like, okay, I want to know, like, what's the A side science and the B-side sign, so I didn't get, I got distracted, didn't find that answer.
But I found NASA has this really cool visualization where you can orbit around the solar system. It shows you where all the probes are and how Pioneer 10's like zipping off that way and.

Greg:
[42:24] I think we should make use of New Horizons while we have it in the best way possible and I do think that is definitely a heliophysics mission.
So, sorry John, I am not buying it.

Introduction to Beer de Coupage and Chilling Beer Company

Jeff:
[42:46] What's next? Next is Beer de Coupage.

Shannon:
[42:49] Okay, I'm going to have to look at the label there to make sure I don't get it.

Jeff:
[42:53] Yeah, that's from Chilling Beer Company.

Greg:
[42:55] I did think it was B-I-E-R-E, so I was right there.

Jeff:
[42:58] Beer de Coupage. Beer de Coupage.

Greg:
[42:59] Beer de Coupage. Where did they get this? It first shows up in French.

Jeff:
[43:06] That day we were doing the Rainy Day Beers in New Hampshire.
It was that place where we sat at that little sidebar, had the pizza, I think, or down by the river, where it was busy at the bar, we just had the sidebar, that little counter.

Shannon:
[43:28] Yeah, where we were staring at the boats in the marina? No. No?
Is that, we had oysters there.
In New Hampshire on the rain. Oh, in New Ham, I'm sorry. in Hampshire on a rainy day.

Greg:
[43:41] So what is the brewery here? Because there are lots of Beardicoupages.

Jeff:
[43:44] Schilling Beer Company.

Shannon:
[43:49] Schilling?

Jeff:
[43:49] Schilling.

Shannon:
[43:50] Schilling.

Greg:
[43:52] SCH, yeah. Okay. So looking at, the first thing that came up was actually Funk Factory Brewing, where, where they say Beardicoupage is a phrase that first shows up in French brewing text from the 1800s and is used to describe the process of blending old and young beer together.

Jeff:
[44:07] I believe it says here a blend of young saison and two-year spontaneous Interesting, okay, so the Google for bearded coppage Don't shake it up too much.

Shannon:
[44:22] Oh, I'm just trying to look at the label.

Jeff:
[44:26] Stop tilting it.

Shannon:
[44:27] Oh gosh.

Jeff:
[44:28] We don't want the yeast all over it. Don't tilt it! Pssst!

Greg:
[44:33] Oh, that's got a nice aroma to it.
OK. 5.5% alcohol by volume, a wild yeast is obviously being used in this one.

Jeff:
[44:48] Don't tell that!

Greg:
[44:48] Dude. Sorry, I'm looking, I'm reading it. This was brewed March 2023.

Jeff:
[44:53] You just want to stir up all the funk in the bottom.

Greg:
[44:57] I want this to be funky. Yeah. a blend of a young saison and a two-year-age spontaneous beer what is this the amon noosuk room i, don't know you got to google it too many o's in that word spell that out for me A-M-M-O-N-O-O-S-U-C.
Okay, so it's a river.

Shannon:
[45:38] In New Hampshire?

Greg:
[45:39] Yeah.

Jeff:
[45:40] The one that this brewery was on. Probably. Yeah, see, that's the brewery right there. That's where we were, right there. You recognize that?

Shannon:
[45:47] You know if this bottle was sitting down there on the shelf With The wine and everything else I would Think that was a bottle of wine.
Oh Sissy yeah that bit label Sissy miss pot and pipe right?

Greg:
[46:07] I mean This is not a pipe.
In other words, this is not the free rate. It's the picture of it Oh.
Like, you've seen the picture where it's a pipe and it says under it in French, this is not a pipe. No.

Jeff:
[46:23] Yeah. Yeah, this smells really... This picture. Yeah.

Artistic Expression: Don't Mistake the Bat for the Place

Greg:
[46:34] All right. Actually, I always wanted to get this and I should, I keep forgetting to, but this is one of the things I want to hang up on my wall because I like the artistic expression of the idea, which is don't mistake the bat for the place.
While this is a picture of a pipe, this is not a pipe.
So you weren't there.

Jeff:
[46:54] Okay, Mr.

Greg:
[46:55] Pedantic.

Shannon:
[46:56] That's it. I'm That's it, I'm going to go get some more IPAs, and we're going to drink all, IPAs.

Jeff:
[47:05] So the aroma on this one, what do we got going on there? It's kind of like a granite-y. There's...

Shannon:
[47:15] Did you say granite?

Jeff:
[47:16] Yeah.

Shannon:
[47:16] Yeah. Okay.

Jeff:
[47:17] Like, kind of like a stone dust. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a stone dust.

Greg:
[47:20] Mm-hmm.

Jeff:
[47:22] There's a little bit of like, washed rind cheese aroma, like loomy rind.
Speaking of which, Greg, I got some Jasper Hill cheese that I brought back and I forgot last time.

Shannon:
[47:32] So I guess I'll get some and post-show we'll be bringing it out, having some cheese.

Jeff:
[47:37] Actually it'll go really good with this.

Shannon:
[47:38] Let me know.

Greg:
[47:39] Yeah, I say bring it out. So I think that wash rind cheese is a really good call, especially a rind cheese that is maybe one that has been soaked in wine or something like that.

Shannon:
[47:50] Isn't that what that is?

Greg:
[47:51] Well, you can get like salt wash rind. Oh, yeah.
Hmm. Hmm. We're getting those notes, but there's there's something else.
Because there's that that tartness and that sharpness.

Shannon:
[48:10] Definitely. I mean, it could easily mistake it for a sour. Like a really sour.

Greg:
[48:16] Yeah.

Shannon:
[48:19] This without tasting it. I mean, I haven't tasted it yet.

Greg:
[48:22] But for sure, there's definitely like there is.
There's lactobacillus in there, there is spontaneously fermented, so there's lots of good stuff in there. There's acetobacter, which is what makes like a scenic acid, like a vinegar. Yeah.

Shannon:
[48:42] That's what it's reminding me of.

Greg:
[48:45] What's that?

Shannon:
[48:47] His kombucha.

Greg:
[48:48] It's kombucha, sure.

Shannon:
[48:52] That's the familiar smell.

Jeff:
[48:54] There's also kind of a sourdough thing in there, right?

Describing the Sourdough Bread Aroma

Greg:
[49:04] And underneath that, okay, there's a breadiness under there.

Shannon:
[49:10] Yeah, the yeasty.

Greg:
[49:16] Okay, there's definitely like a sourdough bread. A really sourdough bread.

Shannon:
[49:24] With a lot of flour. You know how sometimes you get a loaf of bread that has that excessive amount of flour, fresh from the bakery.

Greg:
[49:36] And you hope that flour has been cooked, so it doesn't just taste like just raw flour.
Yeah, OK, well, I'm going to I'm diving in.

Shannon:
[49:45] Yeah, all right.

Greg:
[49:51] Yeah, so it's not ridiculously sour, there's sour notes there.
Yeah, it's just but it's not like, oh, my God, this is like puckering me up sour. No, it's just a little tongue. The sour is just, I mean, this is blended, right? So there's clearly, I bet what it was blended into was really sour.
But then there's a saison in here that lightens that up and gives it more of a balance and that sort of dusty note that saisons can give along with a little bit of a floral note.
Like there's dandelion coming out to me.
Yeah, especially near the end.
Maybe like escarole or something. Even with like a bitter green.
No, Adam's too shabby. I think this would, I'm definitely looking forward to the cheese that Jeff is cutting because I think this would go really well with the cheese.

Shannon:
[50:55] All right, so I'm going to tell you the names of the cheeses, take them, or open up tabs or whatever.

Greg:
[51:00] Opening up tabs.

Jeff:
[51:02] Jasper Hill.

Greg:
[51:03] Jasper Hill.

Shannon:
[51:05] One is Harbison, H-A-R-B-I-S-O-N.

Greg:
[51:09] Tell, repeat that again, please. Harbison. Yep, spell it, please.
H-A-R-E-I-S-O-N B-I as in boy?

Jeff:
[51:19] Yeah. Harbison.

Greg:
[51:23] Harbison, gotcha. Right.

Shannon:
[51:25] The second one is Oma. O-M-A Oma. Oh my god.
And the third one's Willoughby.

Greg:
[51:37] Willoughby.

Shannon:
[51:39] That reminds me of a, uh, Ooh, that's a nice little there's If you take a picture of this for our discord There's a song that's reminding me here.

Jeff:
[51:53] Let me uh get some of the labels in the background, I already took it.

Greg:
[52:01] Okay I'll take another one. That's fine So we have it.
I hope that the AI is taking care of all of the weird sounds that are coming out of this. All right.
With crunchy crunch crunch. OK. All right. So before we have any of the cheeses, Jeff, give a taste of this beer. Yeah.

Appreciating the well-blended Beardé Coupage

Jeff:
[52:37] All right, lavalier reattached. The Beardé Coupage. Beardé Coupage. Yeah, that's awesome.

Greg:
[52:49] It's really well blended.

Shannon:
[52:51] Yeah.

Greg:
[52:52] Because you can tell it's a big sour in there that's being blended out with the Saison to even it out and to make it less...
Although I'd love to try I mean like I bet the the sour is kind of like a KMF being constant mother funk type Craziness.

Jeff:
[53:12] Yeah, no it has has kind of that Mineral enos and the sour kind of a lactic sour from the sour and then the saison I think is providing a little bit of of more body, I'm getting a little bit of lemoniness from it.
Yeah, I think that's it. All right, so this one is Oma, this one's Willoughby, that is Harbison.

Greg:
[53:44] So the, yeah, so the one that is the least gooey, the hardest of them, which is not particularly yard is the Ola.
This is a organic pasteurized cow milk cheese with a rush Rhine Tomei and the cow Tommy Arthur. I guess I don't know what Tomei means.

Shannon:
[54:04] I don't know the cows are from Von Trapp.
Oh brewery the lager brewery so not only do they brew they also brew cows.
Breed brew and breed they brew and breed.
I don't know about this. I'm not into soft cheeses.

Jeff:
[54:23] Soft cheeses all that much.

Greg:
[54:25] Hmm. You're missing out.

Shannon:
[54:26] Hmm. It's just the texture I have a problem with.
Can't do it. Can't do it.

Greg:
[54:34] I mean.

Shannon:
[54:36] You're a lot more for us.

Jeff:
[54:37] Yeah. So Jasper Hill is in the same area of Vermont as where Hill Farmstead is.
They don't have tours or anything like that. They've been awesome going on a cheese making tour. Could have totally done it.
And I found out about it when I was looking at the Hill Farmstead website.
They're like, you know, things to do nearby and they're like, Jasper Hill doesn't have things.
But if you go to the general store in town, they carry the cheeses there.
So after we went to Hill Farmstead, we stopped at the general store and got the cheeses, got some coffee. Did we get anything else? I don't remember.

Shannon:
[55:12] I think that was it.

Greg:
[55:13] So the Tomé des Sauvés, um I'm sure I'm nailing that pronunciation, is it's a natural rind, lumpy and brown.
The texture is, they have crushed velvet. It's got a little bit of crunch to it.

Jeff:
[55:30] I figured that was just salt crystals for me. Give it the crunch.

Greg:
[55:34] It also has, it changes the flavor because it adds a real earthiness to the rest of it, which again, this was a...

Jeff:
[55:43] This last one is actually wrapped in birch. Mm.

Greg:
[55:47] Okay. So, but this is, um, Hmm. Okay. Cheese. Craft cheese radio.

Shannon:
[55:56] Hmm.

Greg:
[56:02] Very nutty.
Like deep, not like, um, Mmm, like bigger than walnut, like something really nutty.

Jeff:
[56:18] I think walnuts from like, I'm not sure what a bigger nut is.
I think of a Brazil nut, but they don't really carry much flavor, I think. No, I mean like a deeper nutty flavor. All right.
You know, on top of that, I mean, it's a tangy, it's cow's milk cheese, right? So there's a bit of a grassy flavor to it.

Greg:
[56:40] When you bring the rind in, you get more, you get more crusty flavors, a little bit like a focaccia.

Shannon:
[56:58] So how's it mixing with this Viare Gold Brash?

Greg:
[57:06] Honest, not great. I think they're kind of playing against each other as opposed to marrying.

Jeff:
[57:20] I do get some more malty flavors from this.

Greg:
[57:26] Yes, the fattiness of the cheese is taking away from the acidity.

Shannon:
[57:30] Oh, okay.

Greg:
[57:32] So the maltier flavors of this will come out more.

Jeff:
[57:36] Yeah, so we have this beer too. So we can save some cheese to compare with this one, which is another blend of 2019-2020 spontaneous fermented farmhouse sales.

Greg:
[57:46] We're just going to go from runnier cheese to runnier cheese and I love it.
I'm a big fan, like this to me is heaven.

Jeff:
[57:55] So yeah, so you probably know this, Shannon, I don't know if you know this, but this cheese might just be runnier because it has more age on it.
A lot of these cheeses will start out more firm and then as they...

Greg:
[58:07] I mean, based on what I'm seeing here, no. Like the Harbison is going to be runny like that and the Willoughby is less runny, but more runny than the Oma?

Jeff:
[58:17] The Oma doesn't have a eat by date.
The Willoughby says enjoy by the 30th of September.

Shannon:
[58:27] I mean, I mean, it's a long, it's a long lifetime, you know, like it's not a couple of weeks.

Jeff:
[58:32] And then the Harbison is enjoyed by the 16th of September.

Shannon:
[58:36] I mean, it's soured milk.

Greg:
[58:37] What are you going to do? What are you going to do? Make it more soured?
Like, I mean, I mean, you can get a mold on it, right?
But it's like, when does yogurt go bad, right?
I mean, it's ... I know that the FDA requires dates on those, but I don't think those dates really tell a whole story.
If the thing is covered with fuzz, throw it out.

Shannon:
[59:06] But if it's not- If it smells like a dead body, throw it out.

Greg:
[59:09] There are some cheeses that will smell like a dead body. I'm talking about yogurt, actually. Yeah.

Shannon:
[59:13] I had a situation.

Jeff:
[59:15] Did you see the Adam Ragusea about mold?

Shannon:
[59:19] No, I don't think so.

Jeff:
[59:22] The TLDR is that there's more health effects, like for things like bread where the mycelia can, like hard cheeses are different. You can cut the mold off and keep the rest.
But like bread, if any of it's moldy, you shouldn't eat it because the mycelia will be spread out through it.
In a Western diet, it's probably not as important because you'll be getting a variety of molds if you eat moldy stuff. But like, in other diets where like rice mold is a thing and you kind of have this monoculture mold, it actually has real health problems to it.

Shannon:
[59:58] It's a good thing I threw a bread away as soon as I see a hint of mold on it.

Greg:
[1:00:04] Or hearing somewhere.

Jeff:
[1:00:06] I would have said no before I saw this and now like, okay, now I have more information.
I'm able to change my opinion.

Shannon:
[1:00:13] So I do remember reading somewhere.

Greg:
[1:00:16] I don't know how true it is that there are no known bread and molds that are harmful to humans, like that are poisonous to humans.
That's that does not mean that they will taste bad or perhaps give you indigestion or bad things like that, but they won't like kill you.
But another thing that, you know, LSD comes from bread mold.
So, some types of illness, like it's a rival.

Jeff:
[1:00:42] I would say, you know, try to find that episode of Ragusea and see what he says about it and kind of, you know, add that to your base of knowledge on what's safe to eat and what's not.
Because I was of the camp of cut off the gross part, eat the rest.
And if you're only eating some mycelia occasionally, it's probably still okay.
Okay. But there has been studies that show that moldy food has health complications. Oh my.

Greg:
[1:01:11] I get it because what you see is the fruiting body of the mold in general, right?
Not the moldy stuff. Not the actual mold itself, which is, like you said, the network of mycelia.

Jeff:
[1:01:26] So like inbred, the whole thing can be colonized and you take off a couple pieces and you're still eating mold.

Greg:
[1:01:34] More nutrition, man. Fungus is just a part of the world.

Jeff:
[1:01:38] That's what I would have thought until I saw this. So just watch it.

Shannon:
[1:01:42] They're more in and out.

Greg:
[1:01:43] I just ate some moldy bread. I do that.

Jeff:
[1:01:49] All right. Let's go back to IPAville.

Shannon:
[1:01:50] All right.

Jeff:
[1:01:52] This is the last brewery we stopped at on our trip.
We stopped in Auburn, New York, right on the top of one of the Finger Lakes.
This is Prison City Brewing Company. And this is Mass Riot.

Greg:
[1:02:07] Is this a place called Prison City?

Jeff:
[1:02:09] Yeah. Well, I guess Auburn is... there's a prison or something in Auburn.

Greg:
[1:02:17] I hear there's trouble right here in Prison City with a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for prison.

Jeff:
[1:02:27] I'm not sure what you're quoting.

Greg:
[1:02:29] Music man. Music man, my friend.

Shannon:
[1:02:33] He said, this is Mass Riot.

Jeff:
[1:02:36] When he drank last night, I believe.

Beers and Breweries: Prison City and Flagship IPAs

Greg:
[1:02:38] So I assume that all of their things are sort of, or not, or some of at least some of their beers are prison.

Jeff:
[1:02:45] Some of them.
Like, like their flagship IPAs and stuff.
Prison City, I first made it on my radar. This is actually the second time I've been there. when I went out with the X to Oma Gang and whatnot, these guys had won something prestigious.
I don't know if it was like a silver for IPA, GABF, or World Beer Cup or something, but like brand new brewery, won a thing, went up there.
It was a nice brewery, But they didn't have the beer that was, maybe it was one of those, who's the big web zine that writes like the 50 best IPAs?
Isn't Thrillist, but it was like something Pace, maybe it was Pace, yeah.

Shannon:
[1:03:36] Yeah.

Jeff:
[1:03:38] Yeah, maybe that's what they were on. They came in like number two in the Pace competition. So I went up there, didn't have it.
And then we were driving home on a Monday and things aren't open, breweries aren't open on Mondays, but this place was.

Shannon:
[1:03:54] We had lunch, there was a good lunch.

Jeff:
[1:03:55] Bartender was awesome. And we were drinking some tea. Yeah. You do not wish to.

Greg:
[1:03:59] One second. Friend, right here I say trouble right.

Jeff:
[1:04:04] Indicated by the presence of a pool table in your community.
We have to critique this. Well, you got trouble my friend.
Right here I say trouble right here in River City.

Greg:
[1:04:12] Why sure, I'm a billiard player.

Shannon:
[1:04:14] Certainly mighty proud to say I'm always mighty proud to say a three rail billiard shot pocket and I call beer from a bottle and listening to some big out of teaspoon bucket and I call that sloth the first maturity to score in a box shove of a ball in a pocket.

Greg:
[1:04:26] It's a great song by the way, turning it into a play song. You, and a bottle of liquor, cool!

Jeff:
[1:04:41] And all week long, the river city youth will be fritterin' away, I say, your young men'll be fritterin' away.
Fair noon, friends, it's up to your time to get the ball in the deadlines, pull to the screen, your patch to the needle, and pump it any way you want.
Countdown, top 40 with Bob Kingsley, that was my childhood road trip hell.
Yours was musicals, right?

Greg:
[1:05:00] Musicals and oldies.
Lots and lots of oldies, god. And the thing is, I hate oldies, and I hated musicals at the time. Now I kind of love musicals, especially clever ones.
But the oldies are just the worst. I can't stand them.
Because it's just, and my parents would listen to The Beatles, but they would listen to all the old Beatles.

Jeff:
[1:05:30] Love, love, me do. Right.

Greg:
[1:05:32] I wanna hold your hand.

Jeff:
[1:05:34] My mom was the same way. She listened to the Pittsburgh oldies station.
I always wondered, I haven't answered this now, but I always wondered why don't bands, why aren't there bands that make new oldies?
That version of music, either Motown or- Well, there are bands that do that, but they're not popular.

Greg:
[1:05:53] But they tour and do stuff.

Jeff:
[1:05:53] That's the thing. Oldies, now that I am old, and I see all the bands when I was like a young teenager doing Guns N' Roses coming to Pittsburgh here in a little bit. I have no interest.
In 1991, I wanted to go to their usual illusion concert tour so bad.
My mom wouldn't let me and I was so mad at her.
Now they're coming and I could go, and I don't want to see Axl Rose at 60 years old.

Shannon:
[1:06:23] Bruce Springsteen's coming too.

Greg:
[1:06:24] I probably still go see Bruce Springsteen.

Shannon:
[1:06:26] Y'all can go together.

Jeff:
[1:06:30] Have fun. I'll find something else to do.

Greg:
[1:06:33] Bruce Springsteen, I'd be happy to listen to a couple of Bruce Springsteen songs.
I wouldn't be there for a concert, but I'm not a concert guy anyway, so.

Shannon:
[1:06:42] I wouldn't even work at that, concert.

Jeff:
[1:06:49] I have no interest in going to see Guns N' Roses. I mean, we went to see Metallica last year, but we got to go in a luxury box and whatnot. Tickets are complimentary.

Shannon:
[1:07:03] Well, and we saw Greta Van Fleet.

Jeff:
[1:07:06] I was really excited to see Greta Van Fleet. Do you know who they are?

Shannon:
[1:07:09] No.

Jeff:
[1:07:09] They're a new band. They have this very Led Zeppelin sound. They actually get criticism for mimicking Led Zeppelin too much, that kind of thing.

Shannon:
[1:07:18] So I really like their album stuff, like criticizing a sitcom for mimicking Cheers, right?

Greg:
[1:07:24] It's like, you mimic what works.

Jeff:
[1:07:26] Yeah. So I love listening to album and Spotify of Grata Van Fleet.
They opened for Metallica at PNC Park, and I don't know if it just wasn't good.
I don't know if it's because we were in the luxury box and the sound wasn't getting to us right or if the sound was wrong or if they're just not good live.
I don't know, but it was not good.

Shannon:
[1:07:53] That can happen. I was disappointed. But the concert was good anyway.
I mean, it was fun to see Metallica. Metallica. Metallica.

Jeff:
[1:08:00] The thing was, there was a whole song when they play, do you know Metallica much?

Greg:
[1:08:05] I know enough, but I don't know.

Jeff:
[1:08:07] The song won?

Greg:
[1:08:07] Yes, of course.

Jeff:
[1:08:10] The song won? Was a music video. They weren't on stage for three quarters of the song.

Greg:
[1:08:18] It reminds me of, I remember I was at, I was watching with Damian like 10, 15 years ago, we were watching, Eminem did like a HBO thing, it was like one of his concerts, and he would come out and do like two verses and then there'd be a little thing and then they'd go, and I was like, this is like Eminem the stage play, not an Eminem concert. It was real weird.
And I was like, I don't know if I went to a concert, if I'd want to see that.
I think that I'd want to just see the songs being performed, not like not a not a version of it.

Jeff:
[1:08:56] Yeah, I do think that Metallica brings it at a much heavier level than Guns N' Roses does today.

Greg:
[1:09:04] Sure.

Shannon:
[1:09:05] Metallica is still together and Guns N' Roses are together for this tour, I guess.

Jeff:
[1:09:10] I mean, well, OK, Slash and Axlode back to me. I'm not sure if Izzy or Duff or whoever else.

Greg:
[1:09:17] All right.

Shannon:
[1:09:18] Speaking of tours, we really missed out on a. Concert. When we were in Vermont, we missed out on a couple of concerts, we could have seen Cake and we decided not to. Yeah, but I think you didn't miss anything.

Greg:
[1:09:31] No, I feel like that's one of those bands. Like, I think there are a lot of bands from the 90s where like the songs are OK, We'll see you soon.
Do you really need to go back and watch Blind Melon in concert?

Jeff:
[1:09:43] Well, I like cake. I barely like Blind Melon. I like cake a lot.
We were at Bissell Brothers Brewing in Portland, and it's right next to this concert venue. When we drive in, there's already the people for directing cars to the concert.
A concert isn't, it's like it's cake. But the tickets would have been like aftermarket tickets. So they would have been like 85 bucks a piece for lawn seats kind of thing, And we were spending so much money on the trip and we're like, you know, we don't need the...

Shannon:
[1:10:12] Nah, we'll buy more beer.

Jeff:
[1:10:14] We don't need to work a concert into it. I would like to see...

Greg:
[1:10:17] So I don't regret it, but Lady Gaga with the opener being the Goo Goo Dolls.
I just think that Goo Goo Gaga is...

Jeff:
[1:10:22] Goo Goo Gaga.

Greg:
[1:10:23] Would be a very cool...

Shannon:
[1:10:25] No, but the concert that I'm talking about was the one that was going on in Vermont when we were there.

Jeff:
[1:10:31] Her new favorite artist.

Shannon:
[1:10:32] My musical soulmate.

Jeff:
[1:10:35] Is?

Shannon:
[1:10:36] Noah Kahn.

Jeff:
[1:10:37] So he's this new up-and-coming artist. He's kind of folksy, kind of like the Lumineers.

Shannon:
[1:10:42] He's not up-and-coming, I mean, he's hit it.

Jeff:
[1:10:45] So he's just Pete, okay? But he recently was an up-and-comer. And we were at...

Shannon:
[1:10:53] We were in Burlington at some point.

Jeff:
[1:10:56] Foam Brewers.

Shannon:
[1:10:56] At the Coke Factory?

Jeff:
[1:10:58] No, we were at Foam Brewers. Had a beer from them last show.

Shannon:
[1:11:01] Which interestingly enough, he did a collab with them and they released the beer two days prior and sold out just before we got there that day.

Concert Memories and Ticket Prices

[1:11:16] But we didn't know that anyway.

Jeff:
[1:11:18] He's from Burlington.

Shannon:
[1:11:19] Well, he's from a small town just outside of Burlington, yeah.

Jeff:
[1:11:24] You can tell the story.

Shannon:
[1:11:25] No, no, no, I just didn't want to.

Jeff:
[1:11:29] He did three sold out nights at the amphitheater. We looked to see, she wasn't in love with the guy at the time, knew the name. We looked to see how much tickets were.

Shannon:
[1:11:37] Now he's a hall pass. I knew some of his songs, huh?

Greg:
[1:11:40] Now he's a hall pass?

Jeff:
[1:11:40] Oh, fuck yeah.
Fuck yeah. Tickets though, on StubHub, were stupid, like $1,200.
Like basically, I would do it too. Like if some idiot wants to pay $1,200 for my tickets, they can have them, you know, It was kind of the things that were for sale, you know.

Shannon:
[1:12:02] But it was really interesting. So that night, we decided to walk down to Lake Champlain and watch the sunset.
And we parked at this little park right, you know, half a block from the lake, and get out of the car and we could hear the concert from across the lake.

Greg:
[1:12:29] Oh cool!

Shannon:
[1:12:30] Free concert! Down the bay, it was like a mile away. And...
I could hear him clear as day, but I didn't know what song it was that he was singing.
And after we got back from our trip, I was playing some of his music, and the song Northern Attitude came on, and instantly I was like, that's the song that we heard as clear as day when we were walking over to watch the sunset.
Of course, once we got to the lake, the water was crashing and you couldn't really hear it. It was very distorted.

Greg:
[1:13:11] But now you have that song to associate you with that memory. That's really cool.

Shannon:
[1:13:15] Oh yeah. And I mean, all of his music is written about his life there, living in New England States.

Greg:
[1:13:23] Oh my God, the Red Sox, long lost.

Shannon:
[1:13:29] So he's my new, he's my music soulmate, Jeff says.

Jeff:
[1:13:33] Well, I mean.

Shannon:
[1:13:35] My musical soulmate.

Jeff:
[1:13:37] Your Spotify rewind was gonna be all Lumineers.

Shannon:
[1:13:40] Now it's gonna be Lumineers and Noah Coates. It's gonna be a good combination of the two, yes.
And then we, did we have tickets to see Lumineers before COVID?
No, okay. But just before COVID, he was touring with the Lumineers and their tour was canceled when the pandemic hit.
So those two were actually together. So it makes sense why I like both bands so much.
We haven't talked about the mass riot at all, and it's almost gone. It's fine. Why?

Jeff:
[1:14:19] Are you drinking it already?

Greg:
[1:14:20] It's been like 20 minutes. Huh.

Shannon:
[1:14:23] Got me talking.

Greg:
[1:14:24] It's got a little lemongrassy thing going on there.

Jeff:
[1:14:27] Very soft, very round in the flavor. It has a mix of kind of soft, melony, tropical, guava.

Greg:
[1:14:37] Another really drinkable one. Yeah. Nice and drinkable.
The artist that I kind of recently fell in love with, even though she's not new, but she's new to me, Courtney Barnett, is really great.

Jeff:
[1:14:52] I have a little bit of rotation, Hmm Yeah, this guy when we went to see the sunset you'd probably appreciate this one with to see the sunset in Burlington at the park There was the Burlington Earth Clock and it was stone monoliths kind of like Stonehenge.
Mm-hmm so they had stones it was a combination of sundial and and seasonal thing, right?
So it had stones for compass points, north, south, east, and west.
Had stones for the summer solstice and the winter solstice, and the equinox.
I guess the equinox is east, or west in this case, because it was on the sunset side.
And then it had sundial markers, where if you stood in the middle, you know, based on Month where your shadow line to tell you what time it was really cool.

Shannon:
[1:15:51] That's neat So we were going there for sunset and we were supposed to have like 20 minutes or so to spare But there was cloud shadow was showing me pictures.

Jeff:
[1:16:00] There was clouds on the horizon Which was dense and basically that was the horizon at that point.
So we were like 20 minutes short So like it's it's starting to like set behind the clouds and like I'm running to this to this clock So I get a picture of it between the rocks and I got like one picture before it dipped below the clouds, Oh, well, it was a cool picture. It's still a cool picture, but if the sky didn't have clouds out on the horizon, you know, I would have had another 15 minutes to take lots of pictures and get the perfect sunset thing, but got one shot of a decent, better than decent sunset at the Burlington Earth Clock.

Greg:
[1:16:47] The Burlington Earth Clock. All right, what's next?
Mass Riot was Decent, but kind of unremarkable Good drinker though. Yes.

Jeff:
[1:16:57] It's one of those beers where You're having it on the couch watching TV.
You're really shooting this shit. Really good beer.

Shannon:
[1:17:05] Yeah, it's it's hard to Be poetic about this beer I even had it we both had a taste of cheese I had a taste of the Willoughby there Which is wash rind?

Greg:
[1:17:20] And it kind of tasted very, very similar to the Omo. It had a very similar flavor.

Jeff:
[1:17:26] Doesn't have that crunchy salt part, and it's a little runnier. Yeah. But it is similar.
All right, let's do the Oxbow. This will be the first, we bought a ton of Oxbow.
So this won't be, and they're all sour-y things, but it won't be the last Oxbow that you have, Greg.

Greg:
[1:17:44] What's the name of this beer?

Jeff:
[1:17:46] This is Native Wild, and there's probably more of those. This is the 2019-2020 version. Do you want the last sip of that?

Shannon:
[1:17:53] Yeah.

Greg:
[1:17:55] Native slash wild.

Shannon:
[1:17:56] Sure.

Greg:
[1:17:58] That's what it's, that's how it's.

Shannon:
[1:17:59] What is it again? I'm sorry.

Jeff:
[1:18:00] Native Wild.

Greg:
[1:18:02] It's how it's presented on the website, Native slash wild.

Jeff:
[1:18:06] This is weird. There's beer on top of the cork. So.

Shannon:
[1:18:09] Ooh. Ooh.

Greg:
[1:18:11] That's not.

Jeff:
[1:18:11] There's a cap.

Greg:
[1:18:12] A great sign.

Jeff:
[1:18:13] There's a cap. I should probably pour that beer out.

Greg:
[1:18:16] Yes, definitely.

Shannon:
[1:18:18] There's a spelt bucket, right?

Jeff:
[1:18:20] It was just like a couple of drips of beer, but probably best.
Oh, the cork is soft and supple.

Greg:
[1:18:28] So it was upside down for a long time. So this is a spontaneously fermented parmigiano reggiano brewed with main grains, aged hops, and well water. Well water.

Shannon:
[1:18:40] Well, there was a nice pop there.

Jeff:
[1:18:43] Popple, yeah, look at that, that's so weird.

Shannon:
[1:18:45] Portland.

Greg:
[1:18:46] I wonder if they put water there just to make, to give it.

Jeff:
[1:18:49] I wonder if they, yeah, I wonder if they put something on top of the cork when they tap it. Just to give it that extra.

Shannon:
[1:18:55] I bet they do.

Greg:
[1:18:57] Oxygen, the extra thing to make sure it doesn't leak.

Jeff:
[1:19:00] We'll just have to open a second Oxbow tonight and find out.

Greg:
[1:19:04] So this is Barrel Age, it's...
Barrel fermented and spontaneous 6% on go by volume.
Native micro flora and wild yeast inoculate the cooling work overnight in a traditional cool ship at our rural farmhouse brewery. Well, shucks.

Shannon:
[1:19:25] This this is something that I'm really, really excited about. I am.

Greg:
[1:19:29] Oh, yeah, I love a farmhouse.

Shannon:
[1:19:31] Good.

Greg:
[1:19:33] Love a good farmhouse. Nice green bottle.
This is, as you said, the 2019-2020 blend. It was bottled January 2021.
And the production time, they say...

Jeff:
[1:19:48] It has this effervescence. You know when you smell like a soda, like a lemon soda? How, like, the carbonation burns your nose?
I get some of that on this, where I get kind of that lemon effervescence.

Greg:
[1:20:01] There's a deep molasses-y thing going on there. Leather.

Jeff:
[1:20:04] Leather.

Shannon:
[1:20:05] Leather, yeah. Lemon. I definitely, you're right. Lemon have our best sense.

Jeff:
[1:20:16] There's a forest floor or something like that, or like cattails.

Greg:
[1:20:22] Yeah, something earthy, something a little dirty, a little mushroomy.

Jeff:
[1:20:27] Root beer?

Shannon:
[1:20:27] I think it's the leather that's... You smell root beer? Really coming out.

Greg:
[1:20:31] I get the leather part, but I also think there's other things there too.

Jeff:
[1:20:34] Yeah, there's a hundred things.

Shannon:
[1:20:35] Oh, definitely, definitely, but.

Greg:
[1:20:39] It is added to the pile.

Jeff:
[1:20:41] Do you smell like root beer?

Shannon:
[1:20:42] No. I'm trying.

Root Beer and its Sassafras Aroma

Greg:
[1:20:49] So root beer is, what is that? Sassafras. Yeah, like sassafras mostly.
And I feel like there's a bit of that there, yeah.

Shannon:
[1:20:59] You know what I smell?

Greg:
[1:21:02] What do you smell?

Shannon:
[1:21:03] I've even bought a pool raft that was in a box and opened up the box.

Jeff:
[1:21:12] That's usually a bad, bad thing for people.

Shannon:
[1:21:14] Well, that's what I'm smelling. Okay.

Greg:
[1:21:17] Yeah, I'm not smelling anything.

Jeff:
[1:21:18] We've used that descriptor before, but never in a good way.

Greg:
[1:21:21] Yeah, usually that kind of aroma, the plasticky thing. Can I smell yours? Yeah.
So I'm like Let's blend there there's a there's a bit of newness there, right? So I I see where you're getting that from on that but it's not strong, but it's there Um, but I don't think it's strong.

Shannon:
[1:21:45] So I don't think it's a problem But yeah, if you get something this rubbery band-aid that's normally a very bad sign No, we've totally had that that change in it. Mm hmm.

Jeff:
[1:21:58] We've totally had full raft before. And so you're not wrong when you smell it. But hopefully.
No, last time we blended out a bad flavor. We ruined everyone's beers.

Greg:
[1:22:12] Yeah, but there is, you know, more beer here left.

Shannon:
[1:22:14] So but still it's here's OK, since we're doing this, so mine and look for root beer.

Greg:
[1:22:21] Oh, yeah. It's stronger on yours.

Shannon:
[1:22:24] Smell Jeff's It's not fair why is everyone's beard different that's not fair, okay say I love those root beer barrel candies and I have a package of them upstairs at my desk And I literally ate two of them today I but that's like a candy.
Yeah, but it's still that I mean, I love root beer.
I like root beer beer. I I love root beer, anything, I cannot pull.
I don't know where you're at.

Greg:
[1:22:56] I think when we say root beer, we're thinking more sassafras. Sassafras.

Jeff:
[1:22:59] Yeah, something like that.

Shannon:
[1:23:02] So I went on to- I'm gonna eat orange blossom now.

Jeff:
[1:23:04] Okay. Flavor, be ready, it's an acidic one. It's tangy, it's tart, it's big.

Shannon:
[1:23:13] Oh, it makes you pucker. It makes every part of your body pucker.

Jeff:
[1:23:19] It has kind of that stoniness, that mineraliness.

Greg:
[1:23:23] It has- A lot of acidity, got that lemon, it's got the thing where it hits the edge of your tongue and it makes you feel almost thirsty.

Jeff:
[1:23:32] It has the horse reins, you know, dried out leather in a barn with some yeast on it.

Greg:
[1:23:39] It has- This is where I think the cheese would be great because it will cut the acidity away and it'll be able to taste more.

Shannon:
[1:23:47] Do you want to try the Willoughby? No, no. No.
That cheese is way too soft and runny for me.

Greg:
[1:23:58] It's still a soup. You, It's still acidic through all that. It's really it's cutting the cheese away.

Creamy Cheese Struggles to Stand Up to Acidity

[1:24:09] Um It doesn't wash it that fast. The creaminess is almost like Can't stand up to it.

Jeff:
[1:24:14] Now. Um, I actually really like this.

Shannon:
[1:24:18] Mm-hmm, but it's It's a lot If anybody gets it Just be prepared because that First sip is gonna knock you it's close to like a who's it But my very first sip was kind of sweet tarts.

Jeff:
[1:24:34] Yeah.

Shannon:
[1:24:34] Which. It's kind of like.

Jeff:
[1:24:38] So people who know like my flavor wheel that I use, I usually save sweet tarts for Flanders Reds and things like that.
My first sip for this one, I'm not maintaining it, I'm just kind of giving you the progression of flavors. I did taste kind of like lemon sweet tarts.
And then that second sip is where I got the delicious stone, dust, leather, rustic, you know, dried wood.

Shannon:
[1:25:08] Oh, it definitely is.

Greg:
[1:25:08] There's a lot of complexity on here, even though it is very acidic, there's a lot of brightness here. There's strawberry, like a really tart strawberry.

Shannon:
[1:25:14] Okay, yeah.

Jeff:
[1:25:17] Definitely. Oxbow. So, yeah, wasn't gonna go to Oxbow.
I was posting that we were at Bellflower and there was this place we went to, Greg, called, we didn't bring anything home from them, but it was called, I think it was called Fermentata.
They, Fermentata. They mostly didn't do beer. They did kombucha, kaiju.

Shannon:
[1:25:44] That was fantastic.

Jeff:
[1:25:47] What else did they have? God, I can't even remember. But basically, all the fermentation stuff that is not beer, they did. It was wild.

Shannon:
[1:26:02] Really good place.

Greg:
[1:26:03] We're trying to pull flavors out of here. I think there's some ginger in here.

Jeff:
[1:26:09] I can kind of see where if you think of like lemon ginger kombucha.
Yes. This lines up with that right? So like you're on it's almost well Greg's on to something. Or you're on. To me it's not gingery but it's like in the mood of lemon ginger kombucha.

Shannon:
[1:26:28] Or is it just apple cider vinegar?

Greg:
[1:26:30] No.

Shannon:
[1:26:32] No, there's way more. No, I'm not saying just. You did say just though. I did say.

Greg:
[1:26:38] I don't mean...

Shannon:
[1:26:39] I mean, we can pull out the apple cider vinegar if you want to see how harsh that is compared to this. I know.

Jeff:
[1:26:47] I mean, it's acidic, but it's just saying it's like just apple cider.

Shannon:
[1:26:52] No, I didn't mean... Okay. I'm sorry. I should never have said the word just. Didn't mean that.

Greg:
[1:27:00] The nice thing about it is it gets all that sourness without having any like pithy notes or rindy notes there.

Jeff:
[1:27:05] The leather keeps coming back for me, at least in my glass. That's, that's, oh yeah, no, it's definitely there.

Leather Undertones Balance Sourness

Greg:
[1:27:12] It's an undertone that also makes it so it's not just pure sourness.

Jeff:
[1:27:16] Leather, wood. Yeah. But that's, that's the, that's my anchor point.
Like, you know, because I want that rustic, I want that level of rustic in my blends, in my sour-says-on thingies. And this one brings it like most don't.

Greg:
[1:27:34] That's the foundation that the rest of it rests upon. And if that wasn't there, it would be very unbalanced.

Jeff:
[1:27:41] Let's go into the runny cheese. These all run together.

Greg:
[1:27:48] So, the runny version, so we just had, we have the Willoughby, which is the semi-runny, and this is the Harbison, which is the very, very runny.
This is, like you said, bark wrapped.
Alright, oh my god, that's so good That has more character than the other ones for sure It's got it's not as sour and Stinky Shannon if you think you can try it.

Jeff:
[1:28:15] No, no, but no, it's Whoa, that's so good.

Shannon:
[1:28:21] That's really delicious But I don't know I have the words for cheese as much as I do for beers, yeah, it's more subtle it doesn't have any of that really funk to it.

Jeff:
[1:28:33] It's more creamy. I mean there's probably a little funk in there, but like compared to the last two, it's clean.

Greg:
[1:28:38] Oh, there's definitely funk there, but yeah, it's got notes of sour cream, of creme fraiche, and stuff like that.
It's really tasty.
You know, and the fattiness goes a long way.

Jeff:
[1:29:00] There's a tang that's not sour.
There's almost like something from creme fraiche or something like that, right? Where you're getting that kind of like tanginess, but it's clean, it's not really lemony.

Greg:
[1:29:17] There's a little bit of like a, maybe like a parsnipy note, something, some root vegetable type thing.
But like a roasted version of that?

Shannon:
[1:29:30] Mm-hmm.

Greg:
[1:29:32] And.

Jeff:
[1:29:35] There's a little bit of like.

Shannon:
[1:29:37] There's some things that are there that are just distinctly cheese.

Greg:
[1:29:40] There is that are.

Jeff:
[1:29:41] Let me throw this at you. Maybe you lend me with the roasted parsnips.
I started thinking Thanksgiving, but like I'm like, there's a little bit of like dressing, Like bread, like stuffing, dressing.

Shannon:
[1:29:55] Maybe it's the onions, maybe it's the seasonings that are in it.

Greg:
[1:30:00] There's definitely some, yes, sweet onion-y thing. If you ever made a sweet onion relish, that comes through there. Yeah. So the sulfury note is really covered up.

Jeff:
[1:30:12] It's so good.

Greg:
[1:30:14] It is really tasty.

Jeff:
[1:30:15] If you think you can try it.

Shannon:
[1:30:16] I can't. I can't.

Greg:
[1:30:16] I mean, it's basically just transformed grass.

Jeff:
[1:30:20] But it's not, it's not funky and weird.

Shannon:
[1:30:22] It is sweet and yummy.
Well, if you had a cracker and put that on it.

Enjoying Oxbow and discussing plans for the post-show.

Greg:
[1:30:29] Nope. Right? I love her anyway. Bless your heart.

Jeff:
[1:30:41] I can't wait to drink the rest of this Oxbow in the post-show.

Shannon:
[1:30:45] That is so damn good.

Greg:
[1:30:47] All right, what's our last beer of the night?

Jeff:
[1:30:49] Last beer of the night?

Shannon:
[1:30:50] Which I thought we already did. No? All right, all right, all right.

Jeff:
[1:30:56] All right, so when we were, our Airbnb for Portland was in Gorham.

Shannon:
[1:31:03] Yes, Gorham.

Greg:
[1:31:04] And this is the Sabago Brewing Company Barley Wine. just a it's a it's a kind of in a shopping area brew pub didn't have huge expectations for them but it was super close to the the airbnb the food was good their beers were pretty good but this barley wine all right so we're ending on a on a multi high alcohol note 12.9 percent alcohol by volume. Oh yeah. It's so much for your sobriety.

Jeff:
[1:31:36] It's only a 12 ounce can. Yeah, I know.

Greg:
[1:31:39] Got Centennial Cascade and Columbus Hops. Very classic.

Jeff:
[1:31:42] I didn't think you'd give that to me.

Greg:
[1:31:44] Barley.

Shannon:
[1:31:45] There's more. That's the only reason I'm being nice.

Jeff:
[1:31:48] I figured she would be like, no, F you. I was grabbing for a glass to drink it and she gave it to me.

Greg:
[1:31:54] She loves me. All right. Well, while you're doing that, I'll read out the grain bill on here.
Two row malt, crystal malt, Maris Otter, oh, Maris Otter, one of my favorite malts. Oh, okay. This is, that's what's used in ESBs. It's got this...

Jeff:
[1:32:12] Very bready.

Greg:
[1:32:13] Bready, but with caramel notes type thing.

Jeff:
[1:32:16] Bread pudding.

Greg:
[1:32:17] Well, I... Yeah, bread pudding. I love it. Roasted barley, wheat malt, Special B, Special B, and Maine Pale Malt. Yeah.

Jeff:
[1:32:31] So Shannon posted a picture of this beer in this can on Sabago's Google listing.

Shannon:
[1:32:38] Well, I did a review, a Google review.
But like how much, you got like, you went viral, right? Yeah, it was a ridiculous amount of views within 24 hours.
I got a notification from Google.

Greg:
[1:32:55] That's different.

Jeff:
[1:33:00] So we had this barley wine there and we had it out of the can.
So hopefully this one is the same. It pours with no head.
It pours very dark brown. Beautiful, beautiful.
The aroma.
It's equal parts.

Greg:
[1:33:18] It's, it's really different. So it really, it really hits you strong compared to the flight that we've had.

Jeff:
[1:33:24] For me, it's like equal parts bread pudding and barrel.

Greg:
[1:33:30] A bit of campfire.

Jeff:
[1:33:31] Okay. Oh, like burnt marshmallow.

Shannon:
[1:33:35] I was going to say toffee.

Jeff:
[1:33:39] Yeah, toffee, there's a little bit of like caramel swirl vanilla ice cream in the aroma.

Greg:
[1:33:45] Mm-hmm. Ooh, that's a good call. Yeah, molasses.

Shannon:
[1:33:52] Definitely.

Jeff:
[1:33:54] The aroma brings it, doesn't it?

Greg:
[1:33:57] Oh, boy. It smells fantastic. This is the 2022 vintage. This is the best smell of the night.

Shannon:
[1:34:01] Oh, for sure.

Jeff:
[1:34:03] Maiden, maiden.

Shannon:
[1:34:06] My heart's still there.

Jeff:
[1:34:07] It's brewed for times like these. That's what it says right there.
Brewed for times like these.

Greg:
[1:34:13] That's a weird slogan, because how, like, I'm sure it's brewed all the time.

Shannon:
[1:34:23] I don't know. I mean, but.
I've been really missing Maine today. So there totally is like a s'more thing going on there with a kind of toasted marshmallow graham cracker, vanilla, caramel.
Just campfire in general.

Greg:
[1:34:44] There's just it's like a candy bar.

Jeff:
[1:34:45] And this beer is not your crazy milkshake vanilla ice cream.
No, this is barley wine. This is American barley wine, maybe English barley wine thrown in a burden barrel.

Greg:
[1:34:57] Not only that, this has been like sitting out for like an hour and a half at least. Right. So it's at a really good temperature.

Jeff:
[1:35:04] Oh, it smells so good. It's one of those beers where it's like just sniff, sniff, sniff, air freshener.

Shannon:
[1:35:10] Oh my God.

Tasting notes and flavor profile of the barley wine.

Greg:
[1:35:12] That tastes good too.

Shannon:
[1:35:13] Dark, dark, dark chocolate.

Jeff:
[1:35:14] Yes. Almost like a chocolate liqueur.

Shannon:
[1:35:18] Yes.

Greg:
[1:35:20] Yeah. With a bit of both a chocolate you're familiar with and a chocolate that's bitter without going too far in either direction, then the barrel comes through.

Shannon:
[1:35:33] Oh, yeah.

Greg:
[1:35:33] Oh, yeah, and the oakiness.

Shannon:
[1:35:34] We're all getting punched in the barrel right now.

Greg:
[1:35:36] Mm.

Shannon:
[1:35:37] Now, do any of you taste, hold on, let me do, before I ask the question, let me take another set.
Do either of you taste a hint of raspberry in that?
Just a really, really subtle hint?

Greg:
[1:36:01] Only in the anticipatory thing of like, this would be great with raspberries.

Shannon:
[1:36:06] Maybe that's what it is that I'm thinking, because dark chocolate, raspberry.

Greg:
[1:36:11] In the sense that I can taste the hole that a raspberry would fill, as opposed to an actual raspberry.

Shannon:
[1:36:17] Okay.

Greg:
[1:36:18] What I do taste is like a bitter chocolate-like, like an Oreo without the cream.

Shannon:
[1:36:26] Oh, I think it's much more bitter than that. I think it's a much darker chocolate.

Greg:
[1:36:34] No, it is, but I think there's a...

Jeff:
[1:36:36] Straight up Oreo wafers are pretty bitter. Pretty bitter.

Greg:
[1:36:39] Yeah.

Jeff:
[1:36:40] They don't have much sweetness to them. They, you have to have the cream.

Shannon:
[1:36:42] Well, maybe I haven't had a straight up.

Jeff:
[1:36:47] They're not popular in other countries because the crackers are too, too, like, bitter and not sweet enough.

Greg:
[1:36:54] That's why they make double stuff, because it's so much more cream!

Jeff:
[1:36:58] But things like Hydrox are way popular elsewhere because the crackers have more...

Shannon:
[1:37:03] So is this the last can that we have?

Jeff:
[1:37:05] Hydrox came before one of those.

Shannon:
[1:37:07] We do? Oh, that's unfortunate. Why is it unfortunate?

Jeff:
[1:37:12] You better share it with me.

Shannon:
[1:37:13] So I need an excuse to go back next week, buy some more.

Greg:
[1:37:20] A new story that you pointed out that we haven't talked about is Anheuser-Busch selling Shock Top and Blue Point to a cannabis company.

Jeff:
[1:37:30] They sold a bunch of brands. They sold, where is it?

Shannon:
[1:37:38] I'm sorry, I just wanna continue talking about this beer for a minute.
Sure, do it. toffee. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Greg:
[1:37:47] Yeah, there's a...

Shannon:
[1:37:48] The more it warms up, the more the flavor changes. It just...

Greg:
[1:37:55] There's a real heat spar thing. I think that one of the big problems that I tend to have with barley wine is they're too sweet. This is not too sweet.

Shannon:
[1:38:02] No, and I think that's because this is a barrel aged, so I think that that's why, I mean, that barrel aged keeps it from...

Greg:
[1:38:16] It's possible, although I've had other barrel-aged barley wines before that have not been this, you know, edged towards bitter, which I think makes it more balanced.
Some people may disagree, but I think that this makes it much more drinkable and much more, like you said, toffee and sort of the candy-mar notes, and the bitterness helps to make it so you don't get this lingering sweetness.

Shannon:
[1:38:38] Right. It's so enjoyable.

Jeff:
[1:38:41] They sold Shocktop, Breckenridge, Blue Point, Ten Barrel, Red Hook, Widmer, Square Mile Cider Company, and Highball Energy.
Wow. So basically, I mean, they didn't sell Goose Island.

Greg:
[1:38:58] Didn't sell Four Points.

Jeff:
[1:38:59] Or Six Point.

Greg:
[1:39:01] Six Point. No, Four Points. The one in Arizona.

Jeff:
[1:39:05] Oh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, okay, yeah, I forgot about them.

Discussing the concept of "small batch" in brewing.

[1:39:12] But yeah, they dumped all the, I saw the greatest snarky comment, it's like, Enhouser Bush is able to do what none of their sales reps could do, sell shock top.

Shannon:
[1:39:23] I didn't notice that.

Greg:
[1:39:26] Small batch? Is that what you're pointing to? Mm-hmm. What about it?

Jeff:
[1:39:33] Small batch, everything's a small batch.

Shannon:
[1:39:37] I mean, it's not like, they're not making a million barrels at a time, so.

Greg:
[1:39:40] Yeah. Yeah. Small Batch is kind of a more marketing speak.

Jeff:
[1:39:48] I mean, the label.

Shannon:
[1:39:49] I mean, Small Batch, when it comes to bourbon. Sure.

Jeff:
[1:39:53] Yes. I mean, this isn't their flagship.
This isn't their brown ale. This isn't their IPA. This is their barley wine.
They brew it once or twice a year.

Greg:
[1:40:05] But I'm sure that this thing, everything counts as a small batch.

Jeff:
[1:40:08] Anytime you talk about a bourbon barrel aged barley wine that we're oozing over like this is small batch.

Shannon:
[1:40:14] I didn't know.

Jeff:
[1:40:17] The label is great. The label is very classic.
It has like the wheat things, you know, like the script for the wheat thing.
It's, it's, it's not crazy schizophrenic 2020 craft beer, beer labels.

Greg:
[1:40:36] But if you want a sound that represents the flavor, it was probably something like this.

Jeff:
[1:40:49] This is a new part of the show, I think, is like, since it's a podcast, you know, like the only sense the listener gets is sound. We have to find songs that best represent the beers.
That sounds like a hard ask. I know I'm really setting us up for failure here. Yeah, I love the idea.

Shannon:
[1:41:09] It's also especially hard to do on the fly.

Greg:
[1:41:12] The fly. Yeah, I just happen to have a sound that matches it.
But it is it's got that sexy, velvety, caressing.

Jeff:
[1:41:23] Look, your Google thing. How many hits? I mean, you know, it was like thousands of years.

Shannon:
[1:41:28] There's. Yeah. Trying to pull it up right now.

Jeff:
[1:41:38] Your watch face, Greg, has much stuff on it. What is all on your watch face?

Shannon:
[1:41:42] I noticed that earlier.

Greg:
[1:41:44] This is Carrot. This is my new weather app. OK. And it's great.
Carrot's great because dark sky has been absorbed in the apple. And so I use Carrot now.

Jeff:
[1:41:53] I didn't know weather apps had watch faces.

Greg:
[1:41:56] They did. It has a couple of watch faces. It has this one. It has that one. It has... Okay.

Jeff:
[1:42:05] This one, a co-worker of mine asked me about dark skies for the Perseids last weekend, and it was a rain out, so it turned out to be nothing.
But I showed him, you know, a dark sky map and whatnot, and I mentioned the time we went up to Meadville. Yeah.

Watching the Perseids and Stargazing Experiences

[1:42:23] And that was such a cool experience. I think we were just talking about while we're drinking this beer, right, is Greg and I wanted to go watch the Perseids, so he came up to my house in Cranberry at 11 o'clock at night or something like that.
And the best time to watch meteor showers is after midnight because the sky above your head is in the space, like the new space, like it's the bumper of the car of the planet.
So like before midnight, you don't get a ton of stuff.
We got up there, I don't know what time we got up there, but it was 1130 midnight, something like that.

[1:43:01] And you were driving, I was in the passenger seat and the way we did it was we had a an overlay of light pollution map and Google Maps and The overlay back then wasn't nearly as good as they are now The one I looked at last week was way better Than the one back then and what I did was I found this like little dark corner out by Meadville That was like farm fields.
So we knew we could just pull off on the side of the road So we did exactly that. We found this road through two cornfields, pulled off on the side of the road, and like, okay, we're here.

[1:43:39] And I was under the impression like I'm still gonna need some time for my eyes to adjust. I step out of the passenger seat, I look up, and there's just this purple wash across the sky.
The Milky Way was fucking blazing at me, like, and my eyes weren't even adjusting yet.
So we set up some chairs and we were looking up at the sky, we started to see some meteors. It was really good. we probably saw.
30 40 an hour something like that.

[1:44:06] Yeah, and But at 1 30 it got foggy not just cloudy foggy and That was the end of it.
So But yeah, I was like it was also it was great time because the moon and it was a new moon yeah, so like the moon is gonna wash out so much of that because I, mean meteors are Basically pieces of dust a little more than you know cigarette smoke out there But just as hitting the atmosphere very fast when Shannon and I were up in Acadia there's some really like sheltered parts of the park and astronomy and stargazing and the parks open 24 hours a day, so you're allowed to go in at night and So we were looking at the schedule like the dark sky clear-sky forecast kind of thing, and really it was like just one day that we had an opportunity to do it.
and had a couple options of where to go. And we decided to go on the rocks on the ocean.
Some people might know this landmark, but by Thunderhole. I don't expect you to know, but someone might get it.

[1:45:23] But it was a little hazy still. You know, like you could tell where the Milky Way was, but you couldn't appreciate the Milky Way.
And then we saw a few shooting stars, saw some satellites.

Shannon:
[1:45:36] It was really cold.

Jeff:
[1:45:37] It got really cold and we didn't have like sleeping bags or anything like that.
And then it seemed like it was getting more hazy and we weren't seeing as much stuff when we built.

Greg:
[1:45:47] So it does bring to mind two times. One time, probably about 12 years ago, one of my first times when I went to Cape Cod, there was a meteor shower that was happening and I went out with my brother-in-law's sister at like 2 a.m.
and we went to the beach and saw some meteors. It wasn't great, but we saw some.
Then there was the time when, the first time I went to the Grand Canyon, and I happened to notice as I was like sort of walking out after I like, cool, this is the Grand Canyon, it's great.
This thing saying, Grand Canyon is some of the darkest skies in the United States, because of blah, blah, blah.
It's like, okay, cool. So I came back, um, around like 1 a.m.
And it was dark.
And it was the first time that I understood what the Milky Way meant, because you not only saw it, but it looked like someone had spilled some milk on some velvet.
And it was just so there was, it was like a stain of like stuff in this band.
I was like, wow, that's awesome.

Jeff:
[1:47:05] Now, time up in Meadville is the only time I've appreciated the milk.
I was hoping we were up in Maine and we'd get it.

Shannon:
[1:47:12] Yeah.

Jeff:
[1:47:13] But the dark skies up there, you look at the overlay, it's good.
It's just too easy to get it.

Greg:
[1:47:20] Yeah.

Jeff:
[1:47:21] The ground light was super good. Where we were, couldn't see any halogen light or anything like that. The only thing we would see was the roads, so cars who were driving, those headlights were hitting us.

Greg:
[1:47:37] Yeah, like there's also night now that all the weather apps have cloud cover too so you can use that to see if there is any and you know and we when we did that there didn't have any of that information. Yep.

Shannon:
[1:47:47] You want to do some rankings?

Greg:
[1:47:49] Sure. We got to do rankings and I got to do Merry Fuck Kills. Rankings.

Shannon:
[1:47:55] Rankings.

Jeff:
[1:47:56] So I was trying to think, you know, we totally stole Merry Fuck Kill from what the beers do.
Mm hmm. To try, buy, or die.

Greg:
[1:48:06] Which is basically Mary Fuck Kill.

Jeff:
[1:48:07] Yeah, I know. But I do not want anyone to think that we're clever.
We totally stole this from the beerists.
John Ruvio gets all the props for Mary Fuck Kill.

Greg:
[1:48:21] Or whoever on the beerist team decided to do that.

Jeff:
[1:48:24] I'll give John the credit.

Shannon:
[1:48:27] Whoever's going first needs to take a picture of their order.

Jeff:
[1:48:31] Yeah, that makes it a lot easier for me to post the show.
Oh my goodness, so Last Place is going to be hard because this was a pretty damn good show.
It's going to be one of the IPAs, I guess?

Greg:
[1:48:46] While you're doing this, let's listen to some of the outro. We had trouble.

Jeff:
[1:48:48] Your parents are caught with a cistern empty on a Saturday night.
Make sure your critique gets in, it's very useful.

Shannon:
[1:48:52] Did you want to stay on it?

Jeff:
[1:48:54] Yeah, I did.

Shannon:
[1:48:55] Okay.

Jeff:
[1:48:55] Peeking in the pool hall window after school, you got trouble, folks, right here in River City. Grotto in the capital, tea in the...
for pool. Now I know all you folks are the right.

Greg:
[1:49:06] I mean, Shannon's the only one taking notes.

Shannon:
[1:49:17] Well, that was more for myself. Yeah, because it was my flavor profile. My liking.

Greg:
[1:49:27] So but hopefully I can crib off your notes to get some idea.

Shannon:
[1:49:30] Sure can. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you know, I didn't write a lot, but all right, I got my rankings and my caveat here is that we go on from first to last or last or first.

Prison City Mass Riot Falls Last

Jeff:
[1:49:45] I gotta build suspense. Last or first, always. But the Prison City Mass Riot is going to be my last place beer And it falls into that total category of hard luck loser Tonight's show was amazing.
Yeah, super delicious So mass riot and definitive were very similar beers hazy IPAs with lots of tropical flavors guava leading Melanie stuff like that.
I Think I liked the definitive better. So I'm gonna put the mass riots at the end of the lineup But then comes Bellflower Brewing Farmhouse Ale.
Delicious beer, again, it's also a hard luck loser, I dare say, because the rest of the up was so strong.

[1:50:38] I liked how it had that kind of lemony, lemongrass flavor to it.
It wasn't quite as dry as I had hoped it would be. I think that's part of it.
Now a little more funk, a little more dryness.
Then in whatever place this is, one, two, three, four, five, fifth place is definitive stainless Oasis.
This guy had that tropic that I really liked.
For the hazy IPAs, is top of the notch, right? But it's competing against the rest of the beers, which aren't hazy IPAs.
And so it gets knocked down, but I really enjoyed that.
I'm gonna put the Rye IPA 4 from Twin Barn in fourth place.
This gets the win because it was different. ♪ I get knocked down ♪ It gets the win of the IPAs because it was different. I'm going back out.

Shannon:
[1:51:38] There's a dog laying in the road up there, so. Laying in the road?
On Lincoln. You're gonna see it. Hi, Tori. It's a little pit bull.

Jeff:
[1:51:48] Tori's here and found the injured dog on the road, so she's going to go rescue it.

Shannon:
[1:51:52] And now she'll have- There's another car right there, so.

Jeff:
[1:51:54] She'll have a new dog.

Shannon:
[1:51:56] Oh, gosh, no. Be careful.

Jeff:
[1:51:59] All right.

Shannon:
[1:51:59] Don't get hit in a car.

Jeff:
[1:52:01] Fourth anniversary from Twin Barn. This guy wins the IPA race tonight because it was different. I really liked how the rye played. It was drier.
It was almost loggery in the mock bill.

Greg:
[1:52:13] And.

Jeff:
[1:52:17] The way the malt was presented was almost laudery. And then the hops with, I think it was kind of a Melanie hop.

Greg:
[1:52:23] The New Zealand hops.

Jeff:
[1:52:24] Yeah, we came across Melanie. I really like that. So that wins the hoppy battle tonight. And then in third place, I'm going to put the Beer de Coupage.
That guy was yummy, but we had two top-notch beers before.
Now the top two, really a struggle, but it's more of like access to me.
I've had other barrel-aged barley wines that have been delicious.
So I'm going to put the Sabago in second place. Super duper good.
Everything about it. But because it's hard to find a beer like Native Wild from Oxbow Brewing, where it brings that leather and that granite and everything.
Yeah. It's king tonight. All right. Let me get a picture of that.
Give me your phone so I can take a picture. Because my phone's on the charger.

Greg:
[1:53:20] You and your problems with batteries.

Jeff:
[1:53:23] All right. Who's next?

Greg:
[1:53:25] Shannon. Me?

Shannon:
[1:53:27] Yeah. All right. Well, fortunately for the folks listening, I have mine numbered and ready to go.
So I should be able to do this relatively quickly.
I just do a lot. Well, no, I mean, I rate them, but then I have to like look at.

Jeff:
[1:53:45] Yeah.

Shannon:
[1:53:47] You'd have to look at mine.

Jeff:
[1:53:48] I know. To understand, anyway.

Shannon:
[1:53:50] I love it. So, we got there, and we have this. Terrific equations.
No, I'm not that smart. Don't give me that much credit.
It's not about smart, it's about learning a process.

Greg:
[1:54:04] Believe me, there are idiots who know calculus. people who are really stupid.
And people who are really smart who don't know calculus at all.

Shannon:
[1:54:14] Five. Four.

Jeff:
[1:54:18] Three.

Shannon:
[1:54:20] It's, that time of the night where Drake gets so far graphic. All right, here we go. So, Jeff.

Jeff:
[1:54:30] Yes, dear.

Shannon:
[1:54:31] Apparently I married you for a reason.

Jeff:
[1:54:32] Okay.

Shannon:
[1:54:34] Great mind thing.

Greg:
[1:54:35] Apparently.

Shannon:
[1:54:37] Great minds think alike.
You know, it's really unfortunate because we had this really great selection of beers to choose from tonight.
It's not unfortunate. I mean, it's a great problem to have.

Greg:
[1:54:58] I mean, it's fortunate, but it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate that someone has to be ranked last. Sure.

Shannon:
[1:55:01] Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm trying to say.
So in last place, but still really good, I have to agree with Jeff, and the Prison City mass riot is going to fall last.

Jeff:
[1:55:21] Apparently, that's where our agreement ends, though, because...

Shannon:
[1:55:24] Is it? I'm not sure which one you chose next, but my sixth place, because we had seven, would would be the Twin Barns Golden Rye IPA.
Did you choose that one? No.

Greg:
[1:55:41] That was my winner of the IPA.

Shannon:
[1:55:43] That was fourth. Oh, okay. All right. It just, it didn't do it for me.
You know, it was, it just didn't bring a lot of flavor.

Jeff:
[1:55:55] Yeah, I think for me, I elevated it because it was different.

Shannon:
[1:55:59] I mean, it was different.

Greg:
[1:56:00] Yeah, no, everyone has their own scale. You don't have to use anybody else's scale to measure. It's whatever you think is best for whatever reason you think is best.

Jeff:
[1:56:10] This is totally contrived from agency.

Greg:
[1:56:12] Yeah, for me it just didn't get me. I'm sorry, we didn't go over before we continue.
Your Mary fuck kills, Jeff.

Jeff:
[1:56:19] Oh, I thought we'd do that after, though.

Greg:
[1:56:21] Okay, all right. That's fine, go ahead. Sorry, I didn't want to interrupt, but I did, so I apologize.
And Shannon, continue, please.

Shannon:
[1:56:29] That's fine. Let's see, number five, I'm going to have to, it hurts.
I mean, this really hurts for me to rate these because every single one of these.
I really enjoyed it.

Greg:
[1:56:48] Enjoy drinking.

Shannon:
[1:56:49] There wasn't a stinker in the bunch. There really wasn't. So it's very difficult.
It's very difficult for me to say this, but I'm going to have to go with the bellflower, now I can't talk, farmhouse ale.
I love it. I mean, I really like that, that barn, wheat, grainy.
It was light. It was sweet, but it was a really subtle sweetness.
And I really liked it. But unfortunately it's competing against some really tough ones. So that's five. Number four, definitive.
Which again, really hard for me to say that because I really loved how smooth it was.
Was bursting with flavor. I love that.

Jeff:
[1:57:47] It has a handicap against the top three though.

Shannon:
[1:57:48] It really does. It does. It's an IPA.
I love IPAs, but I apparently, you know, when it's up against some of these others.

Jeff:
[1:58:00] Also think about the price point. This was like a $4 or $5 beer.
This was a $18 beer. Mention which ones you're pointing to. Yeah, yeah.

Greg:
[1:58:09] Well, we have to wait.

Jeff:
[1:58:11] The cans are, the Ikea cans, you know, are in the four-ish. And then the green bottles are like the $16, $18, $20 bottles.

Shannon:
[1:58:18] So anyway, so I really, I, I really do love Definitive.
I, I I had a number of their beers while we were there and have had this one. I had this one on tap.
I've had this one here at home. I'm hands slapped for drinking it.
It's really enjoyable, but it's up against some really hard ones.
So anyways, next on the list, number three, I'm going to have to go with, and I'm gonna slaughter the name.
That's fine. Slaughter it, slaughter it, do it.
Béliard d'Ecole Peugeot.

Greg:
[1:59:01] Nail it.

Jeff:
[1:59:03] You said it for Eastern European, Eastern European saying your French beer name.

Schilling Beer Company - A Perfectly Balanced Sour Saison

Shannon:
[1:59:10] Mm-hmm, okay. from, what is that, Schilling Beer Company?
I liked that. Really liked it. I don't know what to say about it.
I really liked how that really sourness was complemented and kind of just mixed really well with that saison. That just kind of balanced everything.
So you had that tartness, but it wasn't, I mean, it was there, but it was just balanced out really nicely so I really I really enjoyed that bursting with different flavors too and then number two this is so hard so hard It's okay.
I'm wearing the shirt. It's not your child. It's just a beard.

Jeff:
[2:00:10] You need to disconnect from the emotional part of this.

Shannon:
[2:00:12] Yeah. It's not going to feel bad about it.
It's the Oxbow Native Wild. That's...

Greg:
[2:00:21] Just kill it, pour it out.

Shannon:
[2:00:23] It's freaking awesome. some, I mean, I can't say enough about how fabulous it is.

Jeff:
[2:00:35] Yeah. They didn't have anything like that on tap, only were there.
Execute Order 66. This is one of the beers that we just shopped.
We bought at least a case of Oxbow's.
And yeah, so it's so fulfilling, gratifying, like that didn't waste money, that it delivers.

Shannon:
[2:01:02] We didn't waste money. Yeah, no, for sure.
The beers that we had on tap though were really, really.

Jeff:
[2:01:12] Shopping for to-go beers at Oxbow was crazy. It probably had 50 different things.

Greg:
[2:01:18] Well, you picked a good one.

Shannon:
[2:01:21] He, there's more downstairs.

Jeff:
[2:01:22] So.

Greg:
[2:01:24] Looking forward to it. When we do our next show? Right now?

Shannon:
[2:01:27] Yeah. Yeah. First place, I have to go with the barley wine from Sabago.
I mean, it just really nails it. I love, so as my taste buds have evolved over the years, evolved over the years.
short years, I've realized that I really like these barley wines.
I mean, they, barley wine, there's a few others too, but barley wines are, I love that barrel, that bourbon barrel.

Jeff:
[2:02:10] One thing that we didn't specify clearly is this is straight up an English-style barley wine Versus an American.

Shannon:
[2:02:19] I don't know the difference.

Jeff:
[2:02:21] American barley wines will have more hops to them. I don't like them.
I wouldn't want that either.

Greg:
[2:02:27] I don't find hoppy barley wines, I mean, I haven't had a lot of barley wines recently, but I haven't tasted a lot of recently hoppy barley wines, so I don't know whether that still accounts for things. I think that there is.

Jeff:
[2:02:40] But having something that is unabashedly English style with the Maris Otter and everything, that's true.
Huge bonus in my opinion.

Shannon:
[2:02:49] Yeah, definitely, definitely. So that has to be number one for me.
I guess I need to take a picture.

Jeff:
[2:02:59] Snappy snap.

Shannon:
[2:03:00] Snappy snap.

Greg:
[2:03:00] Snap that picture.

Shannon:
[2:03:01] All right, Hmm You lower my volume no, I get the problem where sometimes I just lose the audio loose to a loose drill USB I got I got all of it.

Jeff:
[2:03:20] Sorry.

Shannon:
[2:03:23] You already know he knows I know I Know I can guarantee you all the IPAs are the bottom of the list No?

Jeff:
[2:03:33] No? Not at all.

Greg:
[2:03:36] Not at all? He's struggling.

Shannon:
[2:03:41] Decisions.

Greg:
[2:03:43] Okay, so what I'm going by, my metric for this is remarkability.
What am I remembering? This was a very good show. I really enjoyed it.
I enjoyed the conversation we had. I enjoyed the beers we had.
The cheese. Don't forget the cheese. And the cheese we had. Not for me, but for you. Not for me, but for you. What do I remember?
And this is the order by which, at least at the back end, definitely how I remember things.
And at the front end, I think what I will remember.
Anyway, we talked over the Mass Raya. It was completely unremarkable.
It was a really good drinker, it was tasty, and we just went right through it.

[2:04:38] And that is both a good sign if you want something that's a good drinker and it's going to be, you know, it's not going to bother you, you can drink it while you're watching stuff, that's great.
But it didn't stink. It didn't smell.
It, you know, didn't, but didn't really elicit conversation.
Didn't pull you out of the stream of conversation. Right.
And Definitive is like right next to it for me. And so is Bellflower.
Like, I'm only putting Bellflower in the front because, as you call it, it's not hazy.
But I don't remember much about Bellflower. I really don't.
Those three are just, they're not ringing any bells. I was looking at your list and I was like, yeah, I guess that's true.
But I didn't remember what was happening here. And then the front four, I remember them. They're distinctive to me.
The four is in my, right in the middle in fourth place, it is a, it's got that tingle of rhinus that made it something to remark upon that the other stuff didn't seem to have.
Then the bearded copage, which I agree with you, Shannon, it was just so well-balanced.

Exploring the flavors of a wild ale and saison combo

[2:06:07] And the way that that was, you cut this obviously really crazy wild ale with this saison to make us things very drinkable at the same time you get a lot of really cool flavors and you get a lot of evolving stuff going on um the native wild was probably the best beer of the night i think that this is the one that is it's got so much going on it's it's so, so much to talk about, so much to dig into. to dig into. But the Chibago was, the, I'm going to remember that That toffee do you have any left?

Shannon:
[2:06:58] No, I have none left. That's unfortunate. Yeah Look at you. Uh nurse savoring So yeah, like the serbago was just I was I don't know.

Greg:
[2:07:12] No, it's okay I don't want to I don't want to even even taint my memory I just, I really, really enjoyed the hell out of it and like, it's the thing that on my mind.
Oh, could you bring up some of the cheese there? Bring up the, the, the, the gooeyest one.

Jeff:
[2:07:37] The gooey, gooey, gooey.

Greg:
[2:07:39] The gooeyest one.

Jeff:
[2:07:40] I need to get you a knife.

Greg:
[2:07:41] So this is the Harbison. The Harbison goes in third place.

Shannon:
[2:07:49] Oh, so we're ranking them too, huh?

Greg:
[2:07:51] I mean, I am.

Shannon:
[2:07:52] Okay.

Greg:
[2:07:52] You don't have to. No.

Jeff:
[2:07:54] The Harbison was so good.

Shannon:
[2:07:56] You don't want me to.

Greg:
[2:07:58] But the Harbison, to me, was good enough to go in third place of this ranking.
So I'm going to take a picture of these guys. Let me...

Shannon:
[2:08:08] Make them...

Greg:
[2:08:09] Yeah, make it so I can see all of the guys and take a picture.
All right, it's marry, fuck, kill time, Jeff.

Jeff:
[2:08:18] All right. Kill's gonna be hard. Kill's gonna be hard.

Shannon:
[2:08:23] Can't kill.

Jeff:
[2:08:24] Can't kill.

Shannon:
[2:08:24] I am going to marry the oxbow.

Greg:
[2:08:27] It's the rules, it's the rules.

Jeff:
[2:08:28] I'm gonna fuck. If you don't, you're disqualified.

Greg:
[2:08:33] Ah, fuck it.

Jeff:
[2:08:37] Like, I don't even know how to do this. I'm going to marry the oxbow. I've been enough.
No, no, we need to marry the bearded. I'm going to fuck the oxbow.

Shannon:
[2:08:46] What?

Jeff:
[2:08:47] I'm going to kill the the bellflower. Hmm. OK. Ah, don't try to make sense of it.

Greg:
[2:09:00] Don't it's like it's like don't apologize to Alexa. but don't give these beers a personality.
Don't make them, don't think of them as people. They're just products.

Shannon:
[2:09:13] All right. Is it my turn?

Greg:
[2:09:15] It is your turn.

Shannon:
[2:09:16] I have to marry and fuck and kill.

Greg:
[2:09:18] And kill, yes. Hug. Hug. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Yeah.
Do it, do it, find it, figure it out.

Shannon:
[2:09:35] So if I'm married, that's, that's the one that I'm...

Jeff:
[2:09:39] Drinking all day every day.

Shannon:
[2:09:40] Drinking all day every day.

Greg:
[2:09:40] You're stuck with it for life, through Richard from Spar.

Shannon:
[2:09:44] Fuck, hold on. I gotta look at my notes again.
Which one do I want to drink all day every day for the rest of my life?

Greg:
[2:09:53] For all the days you still live. And if you don't abide by that, then you're going to have to pay a lot of tax, you're going to pay a lot of money.

Shannon:
[2:10:00] So that means that after I finish doing my lawn work, that's the one that I'm gonna go to, right?
After I have a rough day at work, that's the one I'm picking up and I'm gonna drink. That's gonna be my go-to.

Greg:
[2:10:17] I mean, that's what you wanted to feel.

Shannon:
[2:10:20] No, I'm asking, like, when you say marry, that's the one, that's my go-to.
Is that what you're saying? Is that how I- It may not necessarily be how I look at it, but if that's how you wanna look at it- No, I'm asking, like- Well, I don't want you to take my interpretation of it.
I want you to have your own. My interpretation of Mary- Fuck.
Fuck and kill.
Okay, Mary is going to be the go-to. Mary's gonna be the one that's always gonna be in the fridge that I'm going to go to. Mm-hmm. All right.
Mm-hmm It's gonna be tough I'm gonna if I'm marrying one If I'm marrying one, it's gonna be an IPA. Sure. All right, and it's gonna be definitive. Okay.
All right It's your definitive choice. That's my definitive choice The one I'm gonna fuck Gosh that's so hard Can I have to Break your side piece.

Greg:
[2:11:45] Yeah.

Shannon:
[2:11:49] Yeah Yep, yep, yep, and I'm going to Kill kill I'm going to shank him in the prison.
I'm going to kill the master riot in the prison, which is unfortunate because I really like this one too.

Greg:
[2:12:10] Yeah, well, contrived games have hard luck losing, so yeah.

Shannon:
[2:12:13] Gregory. Okay.

The difficult choices of marrying, fucking, and killing beers

Greg:
[2:12:16] Married, fought, killed. Let's go with kill.
His first three were completely inoffensive and very drinkable.
So I'm going to kill the fort.

Shannon:
[2:12:30] You're killing the fort.

Greg:
[2:12:31] Yeah, because I mean, it was interesting, but I mean, do I want that all the time? Not really.

Jeff:
[2:12:40] That's an interesting way to look at it.

Shannon:
[2:12:42] Yeah.
Actually, you know what I should have killed the I should have killed the rye Probably should have killed the right but you're absolutely right.
I didn't think about that. No, I should have it. Can I take that back?
Fine fine Kill, I still want to kill.

Greg:
[2:12:58] I'm, gonna fuck Spago Any chance I get?
Because man, I know that's like a water bed and velvet That's a that's a dream Getting the funk toboggo, but in terms of marrying. Oh, man, I'm gonna want the ox about all the time.

Shannon:
[2:13:26] Really? Oh, yeah Oh, yeah, like if I have to live with something I want something that's interesting as gonna be surprised If I married the ox, but I think it would divorce me Yeah, it might but I'm still gonna do that marrying just so I can say I think if I'm married it I'd get tired Of it.

Greg:
[2:13:43] Oh, I don't I mean maybe But I'm a neophyte to marrying.
So maybe I'm wrong here. I want to fuck it on the side, man But that's how I think of the Sabago. Like I think that would be there There's no wrong answers.

Jeff:
[2:13:59] That's the fun part about this. Yeah, and we're like two hours and 15 minutes in Are we really? I should wrap the main show up.

Shannon:
[2:14:05] Wow, I'm sorry, Fowler.

Greg:
[2:14:07] No, I like it, because I think that we did kind of the show that I was wanting to do, which is more of the medium.

Jeff:
[2:14:15] And yet there's more. Join our Discord, and you'll be able to find our post-show posted right in the show notes section of the shows on the Discord shows.

Shannon:
[2:14:26] Join our Discord, and you will...
with all of us.

Greg:
[2:14:32] All the time. Buy my book. Buy my book.

Shannon:
[2:14:35] I'm not always on.

Jeff:
[2:14:36] Craft Beer Radio is released under the Creative Commons license and all the blah blah we used to say.

Greg:
[2:14:42] Yeah, I mean, who cares about that shit anymore? Craft Beer Radio is being used by open AI and other places to train themselves to understand audio and to, you know, make really bad beer decisions and beer decisions, and really bad, like, and poorly made reports for young kids in school.

Shannon:
[2:15:06] Join our Discord. Tell us what you want us to talk about. Give us some feedback. We want to hear it.

Greg:
[2:15:13] Come on, guys. It's your assignment. Do it. Do it.

Shannon:
[2:15:18] Do it.

Jeff:
[2:15:19] You know, for those wondering, our nagging does work. We're building, you know, getting like some of the old time, oh gee, CBR groupies on there, so.
I mean that in the best way. Please don't hear that as like an insult.

Shannon:
[2:15:33] Thanks. See ya!
In the post show!