CBR 105: The Blind Show
Sat, 2008-02-23 23:47 — jbearer
- Artist: Craft Beer Radio
- Title: CBR 105: The Blind Show
- Album: Craft Beer Radio
- Track: 105
- Year: 2008
- Length: 57:52 minutes (19.87 MB)
- Format: MP3 Mono 44kHz 48Kbps (CBR)
We've talked about it for a while but finally we are doing a blind tasting. I gave Heather the run of the cellar and she picked out the beers that we are tasting. This show was great fun and a format that we will use a bunch in the future.
Beer:
Rankings:
- Jeff 1 Southampton, 2. Mad River, 3. Rubicon, 4, Boulevard, 5. Speakeasy, 6. Lost Abbey.
- Greg 1. Speakeasy, 2.mad river, 3. Rubicon, 4. Southampton, 5. Boulevard, 6. Lost Abbey
Extras
- Preshow - Fort Colins - The Kidd Lager
- Postshow- Cleanup
Craft Beer Radio is an Internet talk show about craft and micro brewed beers. The mission of the show is to spread the word of good beer. We introduce people to craft beer, and teach them about different beer styles, brewers who make them, and beer history. Whether you are new to craft beer or have been drinking it for more than 20 years we have something for you.
If you have comments or questions that you would like us to read over the air, Email Us.
Comments
Rankings
Looks like you forgot to list John Barleycorn (though it is in the rankings). Also, having a Devotion, with it's very light and delicate flavors, after a Barleycorn is definitely not doing the Devotion any favors don't ya think?
Also, Greg... I haven't seen or read the whole Stone debate, but I have heard you talk about it on past shows. I'm curious as to whether you hate all their beers, or just the really aggressive ones like IPA, Ruination, Arrogant Bastard, Double Bastard and maybe Old Guardian. Do you really not like the Smoked Porter or Russian Imperial Stout b/c I would say those beers are not over the top extreme or anything compared to beers of the same style out there. In fact, the smoked porter is probably the least smoky beer with "smoke" in the title you could have. Just curious on your thoughts about maybe the Stone Pale Ale, Smoked Porter, and RIS.
Other than all that, enjoyed this show, as always. Cheers
The order of the beers were
The order of the beers were not ideal, but I'm hoping the experience makes up for that. I suppose that we could get a steward who knows what they are doing but that seems a bit overkill.
Even so, the Devotion was very bitter, and I think it would of come across either way, but It would be interesting to try it again first and see what we think.
I enjoyed the show guys. I
I enjoyed the show guys. I definitely like the premise, and I'm glad it was so much fun for you guys. I think I speak for all of the listeners when I say that I would prefer you guys have fun. Generally when you have fun, it carries across. However, I did not enjoy the show as much as usual. It felt to be more about the excitement of the chase and guessing and guessing, and less actually about the beer. I think that with some refinement of the style and approach to it, it can eventually become as good as the usual layout that is all spit and polished.
PS-Thanks for noticing the forum post in the show
-JDZJ
Tempe, AZ
Good Show
Hey guys,
This is my first ever comment! Woo! I wanted to say that I thought this format was really interesting, especially because it really tested your allegiance to certain breweries (Lost Abbey). It was sort of like those really fair teachers in high school who would grade tests without looking at the names so as to eliminate any social biases that might possibly cloud their judgment. I think having a show like this keeps you honest about what really is good beer and is an excellent addition to CBR. What if you had one mystery beer each show that factored into rankings? And then you could hone your beer detective skills AND keep it about the beer. And I think Heather did a pretty good job her first time up as beer selector.
But thanks for the show! Good luck with the incoming baby!
Fun Format, Room for Improvement
Pretty much in agreement with most of what's been said here so count it as a "vote" of sorts.
Since the show was recorded more than six days ago, I'm guessing Heather might have brought somebody new into the world, after having done such a great job at the blind tasting. At the same time, I'm guessing someone would have updated the site to announce the good news.
At any rate, it was great to have Heather participate in the show, even silently.
Sure, the order of the beers was different from what you might expect. But that also helps in terms of playing with your expectations. Once in a while, it's a good idea to try a wheat after a barleywine. Even if it's just to recalibrate your palate a bit (to notice what contribution palate fatigue makes to the tasting experience).
One thing I enjoyed about this show format, apart from your enthusiasm and honesty, was the fact that it really showed the relative importance of set expectations and suggestion. Some people (especially those who understanding tasting to be somehow "objective") conceive of pre-set expectations and the power of suggestion as bad things. But hedonists (like myself) care about the enjoyment itself. Some expectations and suggestions actually enhance the experience. Nothing wrong with that. Doing both blind and "seeing" tastings of the same beer (as in, you did discuss the beers a bit more after unveiling them) allows for this kind of broad enjoyment instead of simplistic style-fit judging.
So, in terms of improvement to the format, you talked about some possibilities, during the recording. One would be to talk more about the beers themselves. Sure, there are beers about which you don't have a lot to say. But you could try a bit more to do the whole "appearance, aroma, flavor, mouthfeel, body, overall" type thing.
Taking notes would be cool too.
Ranking blind could be pretty interesting but you would miss on the opportunity to taste each beers knowing what it is.
One thing which would be difficult to set up but could work is to have a beer geek present beers to you and progressively reveal things about them as you taste them. You'd still have to do the first part blind but you would get a bit more information (say, about what to search for in the flavor). Not about testing you but about broadening the process a bit. I'm kind of guessing you won't do this but I thought I'd put it out.
BTW, this show is the first CBR one in which I've heard Jeff say a "bad" word. Funnily enough, he used a more PC version just seconds later. That was fun! ;-)
As for the homebrew experiment, I might not be able to participate this time either but I'm looking forward to it. I'd vote for Mild as a style.
At one point during the show, I thought about some comment to leave you but I'm forgetting it now. That's a problem with these long podcasts. I should have written it down.
Ah, well...
Love the show! (Please do.)
Ale-X in Austin
http://enkerli.wordpress.com/
It rocked!
Great show guys! Obviously you don't want to do it every show - it should be a special event every so often.
My only suggestion for improvement would be to hold off revealing the beers until after the rankings!
Another idea to consider would be guest beer selections...let a listener or guest pre-determine the beers and order of consumption.
I'm kinda for mixing up the order somewhat - while it makes it difficult for the palate, it adds to the mystery by reducing the number of queues available for the type of beer. It's more of a challenge, therefore more entertaining. Suggest you clean palates between tastings with water and crackers.
Got BILK!!??
Extra feed - Postshow
Something seems wrong with the feed for the Postshow. It doesn't show up in iTunes, or in my other podcatcher.
Jeff
Gibsons, B.C.
It's also named differently
It's also named differently and I think encoded differently because it's much bigger than other shows of the same length...I dunno
-JDZJ
Tempe, AZ
Cantillon
Great Show. The wife and I also recently visited Cantillon:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elmachuca/sets/72157603566182587/
Aaron
Austin, TX
Yep
It was indeed an excellent show. One of my faves for a long time. I enjoyed the long postshow, even though (as pointed out above) I had to download it manually since it didn't show up in the feed.
I'll also be in Bruges/Brugge in a couple of months and we're doing day trips to Brussels, so Westvleteren (well, In De Vrede) and Cantillon are definitely on the agenda.
Greg: You jokingly talked about doing CBR Belgium... go on! :) Just make sure it's between the 19th and 24th of April! ;)
Blind Format
Long time listener, first time commenter.
I liked the Blind format. Just one suggestion:
I wish Jeff would guess the beer based on his knowledge of beer, not just remembering what's in his fridge! :)
Great to see another Geoff...
...spelt correctly ;-) !!!
Got BILK!!??
Bilk
Is that a cousin of Malk? As in rich in vitamin Q Malk?
-JDZJ
Tempe, AZ
Mind is made up
I've been listening to these podcasts off and on for a few months now and really have struggled with what I think. Sometimes I hear stuff that sounds insightful; sometimes I hear terribbly done interviews that the blind groupies here then attribute to the interviewee, not the interviewer. Mostly I hear one guy that really wants to talk about beer, and another one who wants to be a blowhard contrarian who gets the last word.
But this blind episode really established some clarity for me: you guys are hacks.
The premise of the show was blind tasting...to taste something, talk about it, try to guess the type and even the beer.
It was HILARIOUS how little you got right...was there even ONE that you got right? And the beers you hate taste good when you don't know what they are but then when you rank them you hate them again?
And wasn't the show actually more like 'let me guess the beer out of what I know I have in my fridge'? That is great podcast guys...give me a break.
So keep doing your show; there are lots of people here that obviously don't care that know less than you two about beer or are just so freaking excited to have a beer related podcast that they overlook the obvious weaknesses which are as subtle as a 2 x 4 to the head.
And in keeping with the spirit of the show, can you guess whether or not anyone here will agree with me? Oh, that's right you can't guess correctly on anything...of course no one will agree but as you show every week agreement is not necessary.
Wow
Somebody got up on the wrong side of the bed!
No point arguing with someone's personal opinion, but since you don't just state your dislike, but rather put the boot in to the show, and even us listeners, I thought I might respond as one of those listeners.
First up, I see CBR as a "personality" show first, and a beer show second. It's easy for me to view it that way, as I can't get most of the beers Jeff and Greg taste, so while I find their opinions and discussion on the beer interesting, it means very little to me one way or the other. I really enjoy the interplay that goes on. I love Greg's "blowhard contrarian" nature, and it stimulates a lot of discussion. Do I always agree with him? No. Does that matter to me? No. I find Jeff thoughtful, and I enjoy the fact that he's always open minded and ready to change his opinion on things if new evidence or experience comes to light. That is a rare thing in today's ego-driven out-for-number-one world, and it's a quality I respect.
Secondly, hacks? Nobody pays these two to produce their podcast. They put in a ton of effort, and many of us find the results enjoyable. Why stick the knife in so deeply? It's almost like they personally offended you. Nobody forced you to listen (yeah, tired argument, I know). If you want really accurate information on beer and brewing, I'd suggest James Spencer's excellent Basic Brewing Radio, or Jamil Zainasheff's "The Jamil Show". If you want extremely well thought out and accurate beer reviews by two BJCP certified guys and a Hop Hunter, check out Pacific Brew News (though it's even more informal than CBR, so ymmv).
Thirdly, the ad hominem attacks on us listeners are a bit off I think. I don't know you from a bar of soap, and you don't know me. There's no need to call us blind groupies, or insult our intelligence and/or beer knowledge.
Anyway, you might be a troll, and if so, I guess you're getting what you want, but I'll do you the courtesy of assuming you're genuine and respond in kind.
I hope you find a podcast more suited to your tastes. I'm going to keep listening to this one and the others listed above.
Not a troll at all. I hear
Not a troll at all. I hear these two guys slamming others in the beer world; perhaps not both, but the more opinionated one who shall remain nameless does not hesitate to slam. So tit for tat. The blind show exposed both for really being blowhards...bunch of words, blah blah blah, OH MY GOSH! WE ARE TOTALLY OFF TRACK! How funny right. And even funnier when they then don't like what they just liked because they see the label. So be it Stone, beer importers or whoever...if calling people shams and saying they don't live up to their objective is ok for these folks it is in fact ok for these folks.
They probably would have found a glass of tap water fruity, hoppy and likely a double something...if in fact they knew there was a pitcher of tap water in the fridge at least.
I'm going ot keep listening...just not as often and certainly I am not going to take anything they say as educated. It's opinion, and absolutely no better than mine despite my vast less experience with beers.
Don't worry:
I'm sure Jeff will give you a full refund.
Needless to say, this was
Needless to say, this was something we felt like responding to on the main show. Look for an indepth response in Episode 107, assuming you're still listening, Dingo.
Nicely done
Of course I'm still listening. Gotta say, show 107 was nicely done, and congrats on the new baby. My compliments on taking what were pretty harsh comments from me and using them to actually pass along some good information.
Of course Greg is the blowhard; Greg, did we really need your valuable insight into fitting something that big out of a part of the body not meant to have something that big come out of it on the post-baby show? I think we get it, but a good example of questionable judgment blowhardness.
For what it is worth and to boil it all down, next blind don't go with the stuff you know you have in your fridge.
A Couple Thoughts
First, wow. You're right about one thing, I don't care how much Jeff or Greg know in comparison to other people in the world. They put together a show that is thoughtful, entertaining and does a great job at promoting beer. In fact, there are many conclusions and rankings that I don't agree with. What's different is that I don't care, and don't assume that I am right or they are wrong... just like I don't bash a friend who likes one beer over one that I love.
Second, this was their first blind show. I've done a lot of blind tasting and it is not easy to do. Give them a break. I assume you've got experience with beer, blind tastings and perhaps even some judging. Have you organized one? If so, how was the first time? My first time was pretty rocky, on both ends. Was it perfect? No, I think they were up front with that fact.
Now, if you are not a fan of the show, the format or the conclusions, by all means voice your opinions. With that said, however, know that I am personally happy with them as ambassadors for the craft beer industry. They have a show that is popular, and they put a good voice on an industry that otherwise wouldn't have one for so many people (whatever their audience size is, I know it's larger than PBN). I would urge you see the good they do and appreciate that - even if you're not a big fan of their work personally.
My local newspaper puts out beer stories I find infuriating, with facts jumbled and conclusions made that I don't agree with. That being said, I would still rather see these stories that really DO focus on local craft beer than to email the editor, tell them all they got wrong and only be surprised to not see another piece for years to come.
Finally, if you're going to criticize the hosts and audience, I'd at least like to request to see your work. Are you doing something online you think is better? I used to email Jeff and Greg in the very early days, nit-picking at things. Once I started PBN and realized the amount of work they do to put out a show of their quality, I don't think I've sent another such email (oh, they put a lot more effort into their show than we do). They really do put together a top-notch show I'm happy to listen to.